De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar is Missouri's first Black Christian AASECT Certified Sex Therapist, who helps clients navigate the intersection of faith and sexuality, particularly for those who may be struggling with guilt or shame around their sexual desires and behaviors. We talk about how De-Andrea removes shame from conversations around sex by using scripture that supports pleasure, a pro choice, orgasm, pleasure perspective.
De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar is Missouri's first Black Christian AASECT Certified Sex Therapist, who helps clients navigate the intersection of faith and sexuality, particularly for those who may be struggling with guilt or shame around their sexual desires and behaviors. We talk about how De-Andrea removes shame from conversations around sex by using scripture that supports pleasure, a pro choice, orgasm, pleasure perspective. We also cover the systemic issues reinforcing the barriers to having more Black certified sex therapists in the field and what White Sex Therapists need to know about how racism continues to impact Black peoples relationship with sex - and how this will continue to be reinforced as White Sex Therapists continue working from a model of sex therapy that is based on the western White person’s experience.
Show Notes:
Wanting Christians to have good sex
Systemic racism and how it affects the representation of Black people in the field of sex therapy
Using Jesus as a conduit to carry the shame
Having shame free sex doesn't mean you have to leave behind your faith
How to be Christian and pro-choice
How racism impacts the way Black men view themselves as sexual beings
Some ways of thinking about sex as a Black woman that more White sex therapists should know about
Find De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar Here:
https://www.sankofasextherapy.com/therapists
Michelle: When you think about your journey and choosing sex therapy as your career, what was the mission or the lens or the vision behind it for you?
[00:00:14] De-Andrea: I wanted Black Christians to have good sex.
[THEME MUSIC]
[00:00:25] Michelle: De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar is Missouri's only Black sex therapist certified by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists. Why is this important? Because in all of Canada, right now we have one Black certified sex therapist, and this is a systemic issue that we need to bring a voice to. What piqued my interest about De-Andrea was how she merged a background in theology with the knowledge that she gained from becoming a certified sex therapist, and how she was able to take the shame out of religion and talk about things like blowjobs and abortion and sexuality, and have it all seem to align with still being able to be Christian.
[00:01:19] De-Andrea: I help folks dismantle bad theology so they can have healthy sex lives.
[00:01:23] Michelle: At St. Louis University, De-Andrea majored in social work and minored in theology after getting her master's of social work degree. I wanted to know why she went into sex therapy.
[00:01:35] De-Andrea: How I got into it was by a conversation with one of my friends and sorority sisters when we were in undergrad just talking about what we wanna be when we grow up. I was a social work major in undergrad. She was psychology, but we were both going to Washington University for a master's of social work. And I said, you know, I wanna do, um, marriage and family therapy. And she said, well, I'm gonna be a sex therapist. I said, now, hold on. Wait a minute. What is that? I've never heard of such things. Tell me more.
[00:02:11] Michelle: She wrote a chapter in the book that I've actually heard my colleagues talk a lot about. It's a reference book for sex therapists called An Intersectional Approach to Sex Therapy Centering the Lives of Indigenous, Racialized, and People of Color.
[00:02:25] De-Andrea: And every chapter is written by a person of color who's a sexuality professional, whether it's educator, counselor, therapist, sex worker, coach, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The title of my chapter is Holy Sex: Using Narrative Therapy and Mindfulness to Address Church Hurt and Embrace the Erotic.
[00:02:47] Michelle: What's cool about this book is that most sex therapy books are based on the white western perspective and leave out other cultures and belief systems, which can cause clients to feel like their sex therapists don't understand them. What does De-Andrea wish more white sex therapists knew about Black women's sexuality?
[00:03:06] De-Andrea: If you have lighter skin, then you're perceived as being more attractive as someone who is darker. Same thing with texturism. It's this idea of proximity to whiteness. I really wish that more white therapists were aware of these issues.
[00:03:23] Michelle: Same goes for the sexuality of Black men.
[00:03:26] De-Andrea: This idea that Black men were oversexualized and just wanted to rape white women, and this idea has permeated our entire cultural fabric.
[00:03:38] Michelle: Now here's my conversation with De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar.
[00:03:48] De-Andrea: My master's program had one sexuality class and we took it with Linda Weiner, who was an amazing therapist, and I still looked to as a mentor in the field and I was like, okay, this is a real thing. Okay, so how do we do it? But yeah, that's how I got into it. I want Black Christians to have good sex.
[00:04:07] Michelle: Was it coming from a place of, I know a lot of people who are Black and who are Christian and struggling with how they feel about sex and sexuality. Is that what it was for you?
[00:04:20] De-Andrea: I had a lot of conversations with people who had a lot of hangups, lessons that they learned in church that weren't necessarily based on anything other than someone's opinion about what was right and what was supposed to be just according to God's word and sexuality. And so it really prohibited them from experiencing the fullness of this gift. They did not give themselves permission, even if they were married. It's like, oh, I can't do that. Or I only have to do this, let alone talking about pleasure and how you can access pleasure, not just sexually, but throughout our lives. And fortunately for myself, I had a really loving, supportive mother who I still have very good, open and honest conversations about sex and sexuality with. But I know that's incredibly anomalous. It's not something that is common. And so this idea of wanting folks to just have good sex comes from seeing so many people who I know did not have good sex.
[00:05:36] Michelle: You identify as being Christian?
[00:05:38] De-Andrea: Yeah, I do. I actually identify as Christian Plus, which is a term that I heard from D. Danyelle Thomas she founded, like a digital online church called the Unfit Christian, but she coined this term Christian Plus, which for me, how I identify it is my foundation of my belief is Christianity. However, I honor the ancestors. I get tarot readings. I understand that God speaks to us in a variety of ways throughout time, and I'm accepting of a lot of that.
[00:06:13] Michelle: That's amazing. And in my practice, like this is the place that I really struggle. Right? It's when I see people who are struggling with a lot of shame. And oftentimes, the shame is very much connected to belief systems growing up and what they were taught. And you know, many of my clients, either they're Christian or Catholic or Orthodox Jewish, I often am hearing the parts of growing up and initially it was really something that they felt so passionate about and really believed what they were believing in. And then there was this moment where it shifted into, and it was a process, but not believing. And I really struggled with learning about how do you, have a balance with it, right? How can you still believe and identify with the values around Christianity while being able to take pieces of shame out of it, like picking it, and then also how do you provide that option, where you're sort of moving along with the client, you give them choices and also wanna support if they still wanna believe. It's this real balance of wanting to be very respectful, but also wanting to challenge some of these notions of shame.
[00:07:52] De-Andrea: It's very interesting, I think, about how a lot of times people are taught that they should not question God. That they should not question their beliefs. And one thing that I've learned is that when I'm getting to know someone, one way that I do that is by asking them questions. And so if you're trying to get to know a God, I think a good way to do that is by asking questions, which feels antithetical to the foundation of a lot of people's beliefs.
[00:08:24] Michelle: Say more about that piece.
[00:08:26] De-Andrea: So I think a lot of folks are taught that you just accept what is. You don't ask God why. With your faith leaders, you don't ask for clarification. You just accept what the pastor said or accept what the priest said. You take what they say and that's it, and you don't ask any questions. But like I said, when you're trying to form a relationship with another human, one way to do that is by asking questions. So it just, to me, it doesn't make sense why you wouldn't be able to. Now, although I understand that lens that we come from, that we're told that we shouldn't ask questions of our faith leaders. We have to challenge that and understand that we do have that freedom for those who do ascribe to Christian beliefs. We believe that Jesus is an intermediary between us and God. And so when we ask for anything, what the Bible says, if you ask in Jesus' name, then it can be granted. If Jesus is the representative, he can still be the representative when I'm asking these questions, right? So, I think looking at it through that lens can open the door. I actually wrote a book chapter that talked about Black Christians specifically working toward understanding their sexuality and keeping a connection to faith because there's a lot of literature that speaks to people doing away with their faith, so that they can feel free and be their whole selves. But, I believe that God created diversity on purpose. And that Psalm 139 says, you know, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, and that includes every aspect of me, my gender expression, my sexuality, that's still fearfully and wonderfully made, and it's in the image of God.
[00:10:28] Michelle: When you explain it in that way when you start asking questions. What is the first reaction? Are people saying, you know, I've really never thought about this before. Is that what it's like?
[00:10:42] De-Andrea: Yeah, it is. Yeah, a lot of times, yes. Thinking about specifically a client that I talked about in the book chapter, a mid forties woman, very professional, divorced, grew up in the church, did not have a lot of sexual experiences before getting married, and had a very unfulfilling sex life with her husband. And he was also very emotionally abusive, would say awful things to her. But after divorcing, she ended up connecting with a former friend and they had a beautiful relationship where she felt affirmed. And had wonderful sexual experiences. And so she said, it doesn't make sense to me that having sex with my abusive husband was seen as right. But having sex with this person who loves me and cares about me and takes care of me, that's a sin. So then I'm like, let's talk about it.
[00:11:42] Michelle: Lots of feelings to work through there. Right? Because there's also anger. I'm sure, right? About how did that part get missed, right? Why didn't anyone talk to me about there's a choice, right? Like you can think about things outside of the box and that's okay. What is the name of the book that you wrote a chapter in?
[00:12:02] De-Andrea: Yeah, it is called An Intersectional Approach to Sex Therapy, Centering the Lives of Black, Indigenous, Racialized, and People of Color. And every chapter is written by a person of color who's a sexuality professional, whether it's a counselor, therapist, sex worker, coach, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:12:22] De-Andrea: But giving an opportunity to talk about their work with people of color specifically. And the title of my chapter is Holy Sex: Using Narrative Therapy and Mindfulness to Address Church Hurt and Embrace the Erotic. I talk about a few different things here. This idea of church hurt, which is related to religious trauma syndrome, but it's like the pain that individuals may experience that has been inflicted upon them by various religious institutions, yeah, so I kind of dive into that in the chapter and figuring out ways that people can still keep a connection to their faith, but interrogated in ways that make sense for them so they can have healthy and fulfilling sex lives.
[00:13:10] Michelle: I believe one of the pieces that's missing in sex therapy is the diversity of like clinicians that are coming in that are representing the wider community in Canada. Right now, as far as I know, we have one certified sex therapist who is Black. One. Right? One.
[00:13:35] De-Andrea: Girl
[00:13:37] Michelle: One. I have many people in my practice that are either Black or people who are in multiracial multi belief system relationship. There should be more options for people if they do want to work with somebody who maybe they identify with, right? Whether that's somebody who is Black or somebody who's indigenous, whatever it is. And we need to have options. You are the only Black woman certified sex therapist in Missouri.
[00:14:15] De-Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, I am. Now, there are some other clinicians who are certified educators, but they're LMFTs or LCSWs. But I think that it speaks to the challenge of getting the certification, how hard it can be. How expensive it can be. And I know that I had a lot of different roadblocks that presented themselves for me to get the certification. I'm glad that I have it, but I definitely won't be the last one. As soon as I'm able to serve as a supervisor, I plan to provide supervision at a reasonable rate so that more people can be certified.
[00:15:01] Michelle: So for you, when you think about why we don't have, let's say more Black certified sex therapists, in the States or in Canada, part of that is it's incredibly expensive to become a certified sex therapist. So you know, one of those roadblocks is money.
[00:15:22] De-Andrea: Absolutely.
[00:15:23] Michelle: Would you say that there's anything else?
[00:15:26] De-Andrea: I know that when I first went to an ASEC conference, I was one year out of grad school and I saw no reflections of myself. Yeah. So I wasn't quite sure that this was a field that would be welcoming, and it was like, maybe I'll wait a bit. And so I went back five years later and I saw so more representation. And I connected with a certified sex therapist and a certified sex therapy supervisor. And I was talking with her about it and she said, no, you need to just do it. Just do it. And again, leaning on faith, it was, if you believe in God and you believe God called you to this work, then you need to believe that God is gonna make a way for you to do it. And I needed that push from her. Yeah. Here we are. Here we are.
[00:16:20] Michelle: Amazing. And I'm curious as to whether it be family or your church community, how do they feel about how you think about sex and belief systems and taking the shame out of it.
[00:16:38] De-Andrea: My family is very liberal. And very open and always willing to learn. So my mom is an educator by training. She's retired. But in being an educator, she's always excited to learn more things. And willing to say, I don't know. Let me ask. My family definitely respects my work, even the babies. They know I'm the one to go to for these questions. Like I think about how I gave one of my younger nieces a book that my friend, brilliant sex therapist, Dr. Lexx Brown-James, that she wrote, these are my eyes, this is my nose, this is my vulva, these are my toes. And so she often talks about her vulva, or I think about how my older niece, we were openly talking about sex and sexuality. And they were like preteens. It was quite beautiful. It was me, my mom, my aunt who's their grandma they're biologically my cousins, but they're my nieces and my sister. And we were just all sitting around and talking and I was like, this is so beautiful that everyone feels comfortable. So yeah. Long story short. My family is very accepting and very open, but I think it's because of who my family is that's helped me to be more open. As far as my faith community, there's a lot of intrigue because people still don't know exactly like what is sex therapy. People have their own ideas about who you are, what you believe, and you're a sex therapist. Wait a minute now, what is that? What does that mean? Yeah, there's often a lot of intrigue, but I have been trusted to provide education, which I definitely appreciate and I'm grateful for. I affiliate with some youth organizations and the leaders of the organization feel comfortable having me talk to the kids and they trust the message that I'm going to give, so, yeah.
[00:18:33] Michelle: Oh, that's great. When you think about your work as a sex therapist and the clients that you see, if there was something that you would be able to let the rest of us know that often gets missed working with clients who are Black and who are either Christian or grew up in a Christian background. Whether this be from feedback that you've gotten from clients, what is something that you wish we knew in terms of like how we do this work?
[00:19:17] De-Andrea: I'm thinking about how important it is to simply hold space without judgment. And you would expect therapists to be experts at that. But if your own trauma is triggered, a lot of times it's very hard to leave your issues out of the office, and so you may have a client who, let's say they recently came out as gay. And they're talking about church and how the environment may not be the most supportive for you as a therapist. It might be like, well, why don't you just leave without understanding the importance that the Black church has for a lot of people. It's so much more than a religious center, but it's the community. Your whole family may have gone to this church and your great-grandma has a plaque with her name on the pew that your family sits in. It's so much more than just letting go of religion. I know a lot of people who maybe at one time identified as Christian and no longer do, but they still listen to gospel music because it's a certain feeling and reminds them of certain aspects of community. And so again, just this idea of holding space without judgment. And allowing the client that space to process whatever it is that they're needing, what that community means, and understanding that the church is not representative of just religion, but also community for some.
[00:20:55] Michelle: What do you do then when you have somebody who comes into your office and they say, Hey, look, I think I'm gay and I'm terrified of telling my family. I'm terrified of people at church finding out. I don't think I feel like I can be Christian anymore. I don't know where to go with this. How do you work with that? And I, I know that that's a big question, right? But how do you move along with them and do you keep your own sort of belief systems to yourself when people come in or when he comes in? Does he know your background and how you think about Christianity and how does that work for you?
[00:21:48] De-Andrea: So I do provide therapy from a Christian perspective when it's requested by my clients. Actually, you look on the front page of my website, it has a quote. I help folks dismantle bad theology so they can have healthy sex lives. It's like, well, I know who I'm going to. I'm helping folks dismantle bad theology, whatever that may look like. But it's always client directed. And so for someone who may come in, it just depends on where they may wanna start. It may be holding space for them to just share those feelings and talk about the fears that they have of coming out, even for them to evaluate if it's safe for them to come out. Like I do know of some people who they no longer live in the area of where their family lives, so they may be out. Where they live, but when they go back home, they're not. And just really holding space for them without judgment again, so that they can figure out a road that provides safety for them and also freedom.
[00:22:55] Michelle: What about if you have a young couple. And let's say they are saving themselves for marriage, meaning that they've chosen to not have intercourse, penetration, insertion, whatever you wanna call it, right? How do you help people to have a, let's say, realistic idea of what that experience might look like? And I say that because I've had many people that come in that that night, their wedding night is almost like a bit of a trauma for them. In that they had this idea that sex was going to feel the certain way, and what some people experienced was a lot of pain and really not knowing what to do. And what sex really was, and that it is so much broader than just insertion. Right? So what do you do with that? How do you talk with people about what to expect?
[00:23:53] De-Andrea: The first thing that came in my mind was implicit model, permission, limited information, specific suggestions, and then intense therapy. I'm thinking about just giving permission to talk about sex because a lot of times people don't feel that freedom. A lot of times, people who may decide to wait until marriage. Either they don't know a lot about sex or it's just been something they've been told to stay away from. So when, like you said, they have this pressure on the wedding night and it ends up being a traumatic experience. Let's talk about expectations. Let's talk about what do we actually know about sex, and then let's look at different ways that we can expand or enhance that definition. If it is a couple that identifies as Christian, we're gonna look at Song of Solomon, and that's a book in the Bible that it's a book of poetry, but it shows a depiction of two people who are completely en lust with each other. They're talking about doing all kind of things like eating of the fruits of the garden and providing an example from the Bible that shows a really free and loving and expressive sexuality can then give them that permission to have a free and loving, expressive sexuality with their partner.
[00:25:22] Michelle: Amazing. I love it. Thank you. How do you support clients who may be navigating difficult or sensitive topics such as, let's say, pornography or compulsive sexual behavior that is not grounded in their faith and in their values.
[00:25:54] De-Andrea: A few different things. One, I'm thinking about how a lot of times clients will come in as self-diagnosed addicted to porn or addicted to sex, and I'm like, okay, let's break that down. Like the actual behavior may be. I watch porn once a month.
[00:26:15] Michelle: Yeah. You know, but there's so much shame behind it that once a month is even too much. Right? There's so much shame.
[00:26:22] De-Andrea: So let's look at what the behavior is and let's look at what it's doing for you. Is it that you're watching porn to learn about sex because you don't have any other ways to do so? You know, really examining the behavior and seeing what is it that we're getting from it, and is there another way to get that need met in a healthy way or a way that you feel is healthy, not me judging that.
[00:26:51] Michelle: If they're feeling a lot of guilt and shame and really tying it to religion, is there a way that you can allow them to feel better?
[00:27:04] De-Andrea: Yeah, especially if they identify as Christian, because guilt and shame are weights that we don't have to carry. That's something that Jesus carried to the cross for us that we don't have to carry for ourselves. I talk about what are the differences between guilt and shame. Right. Guilt is something that you feel that you've done that's against your own moral compass that you'll need to make reparation for, that you'll need to repair. Shame is from the outside, from somebody else putting this on you, and you should feel ashamed of this behavior. So let's look at those two different ideas and also remind ourselves that like I said, guilt and shame are things that we don't have to carry.
[00:27:48] Michelle: So it's almost like Jesus acts as like, you can externalize it a little bit. It's almost like you're able to take it out of here and be able to put it in front of them to give it some space.
[00:28:02] De-Andrea: Externalizing the problem. What'd that sound like? Narrative therapy. Boom. Yeah. But, but, but really, like, that's what it is. It's externalizing the issue and understanding that I am not a problem. I'm dealing with something, and if I do have this connection to faith, I can use that faith to help me deal with it.
[00:28:27] Michelle: When I was on your Instagram, there was one post there and I was like, what? And this was, it pulled me in. I was like, I need to know more about this. It was about how you can be Christian and pro-choice. Can you talk a bit about that?
[00:28:42] De-Andrea: Yeah. Like I said, my family is very liberal and my mother, we've had so many wonderful conversations and she talked with us about abortion, and so from her, I had the idea of being a pro-choice. However, I remember as a teenager I heard a sermon from a pastor who said that as Christians, we should be pro-choice. Because God has given us the ability to make our own choices. And in that we should not limit others' ability to make choices for their bodies. Even though we ourselves may have certain ideas, our faith may guide our ideas, and that's fine, but we should not use that to inhibit others' ability. And that stuck with me. And like I said, I was a teenager. I was like, oh, well, there we go. There it is. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:40] Michelle: Thank you.
[00:29:41] De-Andrea: You're welcome.
[00:29:43] Michelle: What are some of the ways of thinking about sex as a Black woman that you wish more white sex therapists knew about?
[00:29:53] De-Andrea: Oh, I'm thinking about a lot of different things. So there is another amazing sex therapist, Dr. Donna Oriowo, who does a lot of work around colorism and textism and how both of these things, in addition to racism, impact Black women's sexuality. So colorism is the idea that proximity to whiteness influences your attractiveness. So if you have lighter skin, then you're perceived as being more attractive as someone who is darker. Same thing with texturism. Again, it's this idea of proximity to whiteness. If your hair texture is more naturally straight than naturally curly or kinky, then you're perceived as being more attractive. And again, it's related to this myth and delusion of white supremacy. This idea that proximity to whiteness is what gives you more attraction. And so I really wish that more white therapists were aware of these issues and held space as clients were dealing with them. I too seek therapy. So I've had situations where being in the seat of receiving therapy from white therapists, I felt often that they dismissed some things that I was dealing with that may have been related to colorism or texturism.
[00:31:22] Michelle: What ways do you think racism has impacted how Black men view themselves as sexual beings?
[00:31:34] De-Andrea: I think about the idea of hypersexuality, this idea that Black men are just oversexualized beings. I'm seeing images in my head of the movie, Birth of A Nation. Are you familiar with that movie? I have not seen that movie.
[00:31:55] De-Andrea: Uh, you're not missing a great thing. It's pretty awful.
[00:32:00] Michelle: Where is the story going?
[00:32:03] De-Andrea: It's pretty awful. I'm thinking about how it was made in the early 1900s. And it was basically propaganda to show this idea that Black men were oversexualized and just wanted to rape white women. And so this idea has kind of permeated our entire cultural fabric. That aspect definitely influences, I believe Black men's sexuality. Because they're seen as being ravenous or as seen as threats. And so you see that not just in sexual situations, but with police brutality with. So many other ways where Black men are seen as threatening. So that's just one way in which racism has affected Black men's sexuality. Same thing with Black women's sexuality. Black women were seen as always wanting to have sex. And so because of that, it's this idea that really can't rape a Black woman cuz she always wants to have sex. Again, this idea of hypersexuality, there is an amazing book, Sexuality in the Black Church by Kelly Brown Douglas, and she talks about this idea that in order for the myth and delusion of white supremacy to be supreme, you have to other the sexuality of everyone else. And so one way in which they did that was through racism and through this idea that the way you have sex is wrong. Or at least let me make up a story about it so that I can call it wrong.
[00:33:47] Michelle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. It's amazing how there are so many stories out there that people. Believed to be true, right? A lot of the work is saying that is how one person was thinking. That's how a group of people thought, yeah. You are also in theater.
[00:34:14] De-Andrea: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:16] Michelle: Say more about that. You got a lot going on there. Absolutely. Certified sex therapist. You're also a facilitator with Theater of War Productions.
[00:34:26] De-Andrea: So my good friend from undergrad, Phil Woodmore, was contacted in the summer of 2016 to write music for a play that was coming to St. Louis called Antigone in Ferguson. And so Theater of War Productions is an organization that takes ancient Greek tragedies and the leader of it, Brian Doerries, he creates his own translations of these Greek tragedies and then had a-list actors do table readings of them. So what made Antigone in Ferguson special is that all Greek strategies have choruses. My friend wrote music for the chorus parts and he invited me to participate in the chorus. My big sister is the premier soloist of Antigone in Ferguson. After every performance, we have a wonderful conversation with the audience, and when it started, it was Brian who was facilitating this conversation. And I always had something to say. I always had a comment. I always had a question because even though I've performed this probably over a hundred times now, it struck me differently. Each time I would feel something different, cuz every performance is different. We would have different actors. The audience is different and there's always a exchange of energy with it. Because I like to run my mouth, I was asked to then serve as a facilitator and I've been working as a facilitator with Antigone in Ferguson and another show that we do, uh, the Drum Major Instinct, which was one of Martin Luther King's final sermons. And my friend, again wrote music, so that been serving as a facilitator since 2017. And we've been able to do this show all over the place. We had two off-Broadway runs of Antigone in Ferguson. But yeah, it's been an amazing experience and like I said, I get so much from the conversation. Like the show is great. The show is great, but the conversation afterwards, just to hear the different themes and the different ideas that the audience will share is really helpful and really enriching.
[00:36:46] Michelle: Yeah, you have a fun life.
[00:36:48] De-Andrea: You know what it's turning out, all right. It's been some twists and turns in there, but we coming at our right.
[00:36:55] Michelle: Damn twist and turns. You know what I have gotten from this conversation is just like, how similar our work is and I kept thinking to myself, what is the difference here? And I guess the difference is, that you can bring scriptures or you can word things in a way that I think that other people who have the same understanding of the belief system are able to conceptualize it in a different way that maybe I wouldn't be able to bring to the table. I could see that as being such a rich opportunity and probably life changing. I mean, I think this work that we do is life changing.
[00:37:40] De-Andrea: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:37:41] Michelle: Giving people a space to talk about sex and sexuality. I think giving people a space also to talk about that with somebody who has maybe similar belief systems that have caused them so much shame but have found another way to look at it and still be able to identify with that belief system, I think is a really special opportunity.
[00:38:12] De-Andrea: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel very blessed to be able to do that and be able to hold space for folks as they're doing this incredible work for themselves.
[00:38:25] Michelle: Yeah. Thank you for doing the work that you do.
[00:38:28] De-Andrea: Thank you.
[00:38:32] Michelle: That was my conversation with De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar. This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios. If you have show ideas or even a confession that you want me to answer in an episode, email me at michelle@getsome.ca. And don't forget to follow me on Instagram @getsome_podcast. You'll get great ideas around sex and sexuality as well as to see what's happening between episodes. Thank you for listening.