Do you ever wonder about how the intergenerational consequences of Apartheid continue to influence South Africa's dating scene? I speak with Rahim Thawer, currently living between Johannesburg and Cape Town as a visiting international scholar about how dating and socializing continue to be impacted by racial divisions that have yet to be dismantled. Rahim is South Asian (Indian), Muslim, and Queer, practicing as a social worker / psychotherapist, writer, and public speaker in Toronto, Canada. Rahim speaks and writes on topics such as systemic oppression and mental health, LGBTQ Muslim mental health, shame, sexuality and homophobia. FInd Rahim here: https://www.affectiveconsult.ca/ https://thecbtdive.buzzsprout.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USlGiHjjVw4&list=PLhbBNizgIkngxmeLwY1CIN_cCBbBgopTM Guest Opinion Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests / participants are solely their current opinions and do not reflect the opinions of GETSOME Inc. or affiliates or the companies with which the podcast guests / participants are affiliated, and may have been previously disseminated by them. The guests / participants opinions are based upon information they consider reliable, but neither GETSOME Inc. nor its affiliates, nor the companies with which such guests / participants are affiliated, warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.
Do you ever wonder about how the intergenerational consequences of Apartheid continue to influence South Africa's dating scene? I speak with Rahim Thawer, currently living between Johannesburg and Cape Town as a visiting international scholar about how dating and socializing continue to be impacted by racial divisions that have yet to be dismantled.
Rahim is South Asian (Indian), Muslim, and Queer, practicing as a social worker / psychotherapist, writer, and public speaker in Toronto, Canada. Rahim speaks and writes on topics such as systemic oppression and mental health, LGBTQ Muslim mental health, shame, sexuality and homophobia.
FInd Rahim here:
https://www.affectiveconsult.ca/
https://thecbtdive.buzzsprout.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USlGiHjjVw4&list=PLhbBNizgIkngxmeLwY1CIN_cCBbBgopTM
Guest Opinion Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests / participants are solely their current opinions and do not reflect the opinions of GETSOME Inc. or affiliates or the companies with which the podcast guests / participants are affiliated, and may have been previously disseminated by them. The guests / participants opinions are based upon information they consider reliable, but neither GETSOME Inc. nor its affiliates, nor the companies with which such guests / participants are affiliated, warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such.
[00:00:00] [Theme music]
[00:00:19] Michelle: I'm really excited to introduce you to my next guest, Rahim Thawer. I became familiar with Rahim's work and then a very fast fan after listening to him talk about the intersection of systemic oppression and mental health. And most recently on how sex therapists can bring in an anti-oppressive framework by being aware of how sexual dynamics are impacted by race, sexual orientation, and gender identity.
[00:00:50] Michelle: Rahim is not only an amazing public speaker, he's also master trained in social work and psychotherapy, has a private psychotherapy practice in Toronto, has his own podcast called the CBT Dive, which is also a vodcast. And proudly navigates his way through this world as South Asian, queer, and Muslim, and is a huge advocate for the community and breaking down systemic barriers. Welcome to GETSOME, Rahim.
[00:01:23] Rahim Thawer: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:26] Michelle: Rahim, I wanted to start off by telling you how blown away I am by how you think. You have angles on how you understand and conceptualize sexuality and the impact of culture on sexuality in ways that I've never thought about before.
[00:01:54] Michelle: And feel as though I grow new neural pathways in my brain when I'm in your presence.
[00:02:05] Rahim Thawer: Well, that is the biggest compliment ever. Were you present at my recent training with BESTCO on anti-oppressive sex therapy in practice?
[00:02:15] Michelle: Yes, I was.
[00:02:18] Rahim Thawer: Okay, okay. Well, I should say, though, that that is, some of that is, it's all, not some of that, all of that is new material for me. Because I didn't, I wasn't doing sex therapy until very recently. In fact, I know that you're a full member with BESTCO. I'm still an associate member. I'm still getting my feet. So I appreciate the compliment. And I'm looking forward in the, you know, in the years to come to be learning from you as we're part of the same association.
[00:02:46] Michelle: Yay. What I am so curious about is now that you are in South Africa, I was wondering what you've seen as being some of the remnants of apartheid.
[00:03:07] Michelle: And also, if you have noticed how they find their way into sex, sexuality, and relationships.
[00:03:22] Rahim Thawer: Yeah. Well, I absolutely see the remnants of apartheid. I think there's still a lot of geographic architectural segregation. Like, things were built in a way to keep people separate. And so, you know, shopping malls, restaurants, people do, there is, you know, intermingling. And there are spaces where, you know, a diverse group of people get together. But by and large, there still are a lot of neighbourhoods that are, like, black, coloured, Indian, or white.
[00:03:56] Rahim Thawer: And so, to be able to mix is also a function of economic access, right? Otherwise, you're still in your township. And if you're coming into the city, sometimes it's just to do work. It's not, you know, you're not playing and participating economically, you know, in the city where people are mixing. You just come there to work and then you go back to your community, which is usually pretty culturally homogenous.
[00:04:26] Rahim Thawer: So that's there. I've also seen what's interesting, you know, is like people's assumptions about each other. So, there's, I'm almost 37. There are people that I've met that are younger than me. And they do have a diverse group of friends. There's a number of people my age and older that don't necessarily. And I've asked them about it. And they said, you know, we just, we didn't, we went to schools with just our own people.
[00:04:56] Rahim Thawer: And we never really had a chance to develop relationships with people from other cultures and communities. And so, sometimes it's just easier to keep it that way. And they'll say things like, oh, I don't have anything against someone else. But we just don't have that much in common. And I don't know. I don't know if I believe that 100%. I think there's discomfort. I think there's some deep-rooted things that contribute to that.
[00:05:21] Michelle: Yeah. I remember when I used to live in South Africa. And I talked about this in an earlier episode where, for my father's job, we had moved to Sun City. And then we also lived in Durban. And it was during apartheid.
[00:05:39] Rahim Thawer: Yeah.
[00:05:40] Michelle: I have such clear memories of the beaches being separated. The memory that I have the day before I left and we came back to Canada. We were obviously, at that time, when it was in, I was in uMhlanga Rocks, which is in Durban. And the school that I went to was all white.
[00:06:04] Michelle: And the day that I left was the first day that a Black child was allowed to come to school. And I remember it was recess. We all knew that he was coming. And I remember this, like, little kid. It's, like, totally by himself in the corner of the playground. It was, like, I still remember it. And it was super, it was really fucking sad.
[00:06:41] Michelle: Sorry. I didn't even think I was going to go there with that.
[00:06:45] Rahim Thawer: But, you know, you touch on something very important that, you know, integration isn't as easy as lifting laws or changing rules. Because there's attitudes. There's norms. There's comfort. There's how people feel in different spaces. And it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot to witness. You know, I've tried to, I've had conversations with people here about poverty.
[00:07:18] Rahim Thawer: And some people will say poverty is a separate issue from race. And I would kind of say, well, I think there's a big overlap, you know. Because lots of people's land was taken away. And it wasn't given back. It was just privatized. And so when you do that, not everybody gets to start off at a similar place. And so people who don't appreciate that perspective or analysis will say something like, wow, apartheid's been over for 27 years. Why haven't people been able to pull themselves up?
[00:07:51] Rahim Thawer: And the one example I give is from an academic article I read by Indigenous elders where they said that the ramifications of residential schools and colonization will take seven generations to undo.
[00:08:10] Michelle: I bet.
[00:08:12] Rahim Thawer: And so when I think about that, I'm like, seven generations, you know, that's not seven full lifetimes. But let's say a generation was like a 20, 15 to 20 year time span. That's quite a long time. Yeah. And so I think there's still, there's still change like that needs to happen. But it's interesting, like people live in parallel worlds. Like there's, there's, there's gay and queer spaces that I've gone to that are like Black majority. And some of those folks have never been to the white majority bar.
[00:08:45] Rahim Thawer: And I'll go to the white majority bar and I'll tell them about other clubs. Like, oh, I didn't even know that was a queer place. I've never been there. So they operate in these silos.
[00:08:53] Michelle: What is it like then when you go to a white gay club? Are you welcomed in? How does it feel?
[00:09:04] Rahim Thawer: Yeah. Look, I'm not. I'm not like I'm not rejected. And I haven't created a lot of strong networks in white communities, frankly. While I've been here, I've really been trying to meet other racialized folks. But I have to say in my short experiences in white majority spaces, I am more overlooked here than I would be in anywhere in Canada or America.
[00:09:37] Rahim Thawer: There's just like a kind of people don't tell you that you don't fit in and they're not unkind. It's just it just feels a bit different. You know, and again, I don't know is it because I didn't invest in spending time in those communities or is that just how it feels? But I do feel overlooked in terms of like being hit on or starting random conversation. If I were to start, you know, random conversation at like a club with people of colour, people are quite friendly. And in other spaces, I think that they're a bit weary of me. They're like a bit worried.
[00:10:11] Rahim Thawer: Like, I don't know what they think. Like, maybe they think, oh, like he wants to steal my wallet or I don't know. I think I think their mind goes to these places. I think they might view me as a threat.
[00:10:23] Michelle: And what has been your experience with interracial dating amongst the queer community? What are some of the challenges with that?
[00:10:43] Rahim Thawer: Yeah. Well, you know, I. I personally haven't seen a ton of couples made up of white and black men, though I have seen Indian and coloured or coloured and black. And so it tells me a few things. Like, I think there's a lot of anti-black racism and in Indian communities. And I knew that before I came here. But that also exists in coloured communities.
[00:11:15] Michelle: Yeah. Racism within racism. Right.
[00:11:18] Rahim Thawer: Absolutely. And there's like a hierarchy. Right. I think like I've been to like cruising spots and bathhouses and things like that. And those are interesting spaces because sometimes I see people intermingling, but often not like they group off into interesting like enclaves in the same small building or space. And yet I don't hear people talk about sexual preference as sexual racism the same way we do back home.
[00:11:51] Rahim Thawer: I don't know if people are avoiding it or if they prefer not to talk about it or if it doesn't bother them as much or if they conceptualize it as a different thing. Like, I don't know. It's like all I can do is observe it and try to make sense of it.
[00:12:06] Michelle: Yeah, I'm sure. I think that you're doing talks while you're out there. Is that correct?
[00:12:11] Rahim Thawer: Yes. Yes.
[00:12:12] Michelle: Do you talk about this piece?
[00:12:16] Rahim Thawer: Yes. So, look, I did my I have this traveling workshop that I call Beyond Eggplants and Peaches Relationship Communication IRL stands for in real life. And it was fabulous to do it in Joburg and then I did it in Cape Town. This week I'm in Durban doing a smaller version of it. And I'll be near uMhlanga, so I'll take a photo for you.
[00:12:39] Michelle: Oh, my God. Yes. If the Beverly Hills Hotel is still there, let me know.
[00:12:44] Rahim Thawer: I absolutely will. I'm sure it is. I mean, uMhlanga Rocks is that kind of neighbourhood.
[00:12:49] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:12:50] Rahim Thawer: And the reception has been really, really good and there's been a mix of racial representation of people who've attended. But each of the workshops I've done have been in areas or bars that tend to be more racialized. And that was strategic in some ways. But it also, you know, I partnered with community organizations that gave me a heads up about what neighbourhoods would feel more accessible.
[00:13:20] Rahim Thawer: But when people have been in the same space, it's been like really amazing because people have been they've had a lot of gratitude for having spaces to talk about relationships and mental health. But also they've said, like, we haven't had spaces like this before where we sit together as a range of people. I did a workshop last night in Durban, in like Durban North, which is a more racialized neighbourhood. And there was a mix of white, black and Indian folks.
[00:13:51] Rahim Thawer: And some of the people that I've been working with, they said to me, Rahim, we haven't seen people come together like this, like ever. This is like the new Durban. This is like the new generation. And we don't even know some of these folks who ended up coming. And so that was like a beautiful thing, you know. So I think there's lots of potential. But there's a lot of barriers and systemic barriers. It's like there's the attitudes and perceptions. But then there's also like transportation and cost.
[00:14:23] Rahim Thawer: Never have I been in a place where people will make plans with you. And they'll very openly tell you, you know what, I don't think I can make it. I just don't have the funds. And when they say I don't have the funds, it's not like, oh, we can pick a different restaurant. We can do a different thing. They're like, no, I don't have like the 50, 60 rand to take an Uber to get to you. And for people who are listening, 50, 60 rand is like barely five Canadian dollars, you know. And that's like a good 15, 20 minute ride. Like it's not like the prices aren't outrageous. But people are struggling, you know. People experience a lot of barriers.
[00:14:58] Michelle: Why do you think that people showed up to your talk? What made them feel safe enough to do that, do you think?
[00:15:09] Rahim Thawer: You know, well, first of all, I collaborated with the KwaZulu Natal, which is a province here, the LGBT Tourism Association, and they have a lesbian and gay community and health centre. And the people who are heading both of those things are fairly well known. And they did a lot of promotion. I also partnered with them. And when we were creating the promo material, they said to me, Rahim, let's put your face on it. Because I didn't originally have my face on it.
[00:15:39] Rahim Thawer: And they're like, I think having your face on it will let a range of people know, like, that you might have something to say that they can relate to. So that could be a piece of it. Beyond that, the other thing is, you know, it could just be that people have been longing, especially during COVID, to have community spaces. Because there was like some spaces, sorry, there have been spaces across the country that are like queer or sex positive or queer friendly that have just shut down. So I think people are longing for space and for community. Right.
[00:16:14] Michelle: And going back to the question around how you may have seen or heard about how sex and sexuality may have been impacted by apartheid. I wonder how some of those things might show up and if you've seen that.
[00:16:41] Rahim Thawer: Yeah. Well, look, there is, there's this like language called Gayle, G-A-Y-L-E. And it's like this, it was like this secret coded language developed mostly by people of colour and coloured folks in the Western Cape, but also in other parts of South Africa. And that was the way they spoke to each other so that primarily white folks wouldn't, and straight folks wouldn't hear or understand what they were saying.
[00:17:13] Rahim Thawer: So they use this like coded language to keep them safe. And now, you know, there's, there's been a book published, unfortunately published by a white person who I don't think gave a lot of credit to the communities it came from. But nevertheless, there's some documentation of this language and people still use it in, in slang, in queer spaces, which I think is really cool.
[00:17:35] Michelle: That's amazing. Totally. Totally. Do you mind if I ask you if you can help us understand when you talk about black people, coloured people, what, who falls in to, let's say, the coloured category? Or just, yeah, tell me how that works.
[00:18:00] Rahim Thawer: Yeah. So people sometimes say POC or people of colour, meaning all people of colour here. But, you know, back home in, in Canada in particular, we would say South Asian for Indian, but we say South Asian to represent a lot of countries that are like India plus surrounding areas. Whereas here, you know, if your heritage is even from Sri Lanka, when you're here, you know, people wouldn't say you're Sri Lankan, they would just say you're Indian.
[00:18:32] Rahim Thawer: So they fall into these categories because apartheid created, demanded, entrenched ethnic identities and qualified them in very specific ways. Because you had rights and you had access to spaces and money and resources based on your racial group. So they identified and defined those very, very, I guess, very well or very, very thoroughly.
[00:19:05] Rahim Thawer: So in Johannesburg, if you go to the Constitution Hill, where you see, you know, this old jail that's now turned into a courtroom. Like this is a new courtroom, but they maintain parts of the jail and it's a museum. You can see on a signboard, if you're African Black, how much you get to eat. If you're coloured, you get a different portion of food. If you're Indian, you get a different portion of food. If you're white, you get a different portion of food. And that was the hierarchy.
[00:19:34] Rahim Thawer: Now, coloured usually refers to, and there's a debate about this, people say it in different ways. Colored usually refers to somebody who has an ancestry where black and white mixed. Because that would have been illegal at a particular time. And so for people who are coloured, tracing their history is quite difficult. So people who are mixed race specifically with white and black would be coloured.
[00:20:05] Rahim Thawer: And then coloured people would have children and likely with other coloured people because they were located in their own townships. And so then that's how that, that's what they would refer to. Usually if somebody was Indian and white mixed or they were black and Indian mixed, they would be considered mixed race. If that makes sense.
[00:20:24] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:20:25] Rahim Thawer: So coloured becomes its own race here. And apartheid did that, right? It was a policy around segregation that then tells you what rights you have. And so some people will say, oh, like a lot of coloured people here, if they went to America, they would be considered black. But here they see themselves as different from black. And that's just the history and legacy of that.
[00:20:46] Michelle: Yeah. I'm very much aware. I know that you had said that there's some load shedding going on with internet connection. What is that?
[00:21:00] Rahim Thawer: Well, from what I've understood, it is an ongoing energy crisis in this particular country and some surrounding areas. And the infrastructure hasn't been able to keep up or hasn't been maintained or upgraded for the number of people. And so with lack of funds, lack of infrastructure, lack of upgrading, what happens is the government will shut down power in certain grids across the country.
[00:21:34] Rahim Thawer: So every province has a rotation of the grids. And the power shuts off for two to two and a half hours at a time. And that helps save energy and reallocate it to other neighbourhoods. But it is quite stressful when it comes to work, operating a refrigerator, having heating or air conditioning. All of that stuff comes to a standstill. So it's quite challenging. They are in the middle of an energy crisis and trying to figure out what to do to make things more sustainable.
[00:22:03] Michelle: Got it.
[00:22:04] Rahim Thawer: But there aren't a lot of tax dollars. There's a lot of unemployment. There's a lot of poverty, and there's no jobs. So there's like a huge mix of things happening.
[00:22:13] Michelle: I wanted to ask you, I heard, I don't know where, maybe it was a podcast, that you are writing a book on men's sexuality. I think gay men's sexuality. Can you say more? Can you talk a bit about that?
[00:22:33] Michelle: Because it really excites me because I do think it's an area that is missing in the resources that working as a sex therapist, that we can give to our clients, people of colour, to be able to just identify with the work.
[00:22:50] Rahim Thawer: Absolutely. So look, every time I've had a gay client, they've said to me, Rahim, have you read The Velvet Rage? And I'm like, yes, by Alan Downs. That was in 2008. You know? And it's a good book, but there's room for more in that realm. Right? And people ask me, well, what do you think about some of his ideas? And I said his ideas are great. He talked about shame and shame-based trauma and relationships and casual sex.
[00:23:19] Rahim Thawer: But he also framed gay men's appetites and their geographic positioning, moving to gay ghettos, as being a barrier to certain kinds of progress in our lives. So it's like, you know, it's an interesting perspective. I think for my book, I am, my central thesis is that gay, bi, queer, trans guys operate in a world where both long-term relationships and casual sex is celebrated but also criticized.
[00:23:53] Rahim Thawer: We internalize messages from a dominant culture and our subculture about long-term relationships and casual sex. And that's difficult to navigate. So I'm starting the book off to set the landscape. I want to talk about the landscape of connection-seeking and why it's so difficult and why that landscape itself is a determinant of our mental health. And then I'm saying, like, we want it all. Like, we're carving our own path.
[00:24:28] Rahim Thawer: We're trying to figure out how to have all the, you know, all the things. We don't have a ton of scripts or a ton of models. We do have some good TV shows that have come out in the last little while. But I think there could be more. And so the rest of the book or the majority of the book is a series of short stories. And each short story is meant to explore the rewards and challenges of pursuing casual sex and pursuing long-term relationships.
[00:24:59] Rahim Thawer: It ends with discussion questions for each story because there are some theoretical things embedded in there. But I think the discussion questions will be great if anyone wants to use it for, like, a group therapy model or wants to use it for, like, a book club. Like, I really want people to talk about relationships in nuanced ways, right? And so that's what I'm really excited about. The publisher that I've signed with is Thorntree Press. And the preliminary title is called Seeking, Stories of a Gay Therapist Making Sense of Connection.
[00:25:34] Rahim Thawer: So I'm really excited about that. And yet it's due in October. So let's see how we go. Let's see how we go. But that is a big project that I'm working on that I'm super, super excited about.
[00:25:49] Michelle: Yeah. And will that be specifically for therapists? Or is it also, would it be for the people that we work with?
[00:26:00] Rahim Thawer: So my hope is that therapists will find it relevant. But I'm choosing to do it as a series of short stories because I want it to be relatable to a larger audience of queer guys. And I also want people to be able to draw some of their own conclusions from the stories. So when you do an academic paper or, you know, you're trying to have this astute analysis and you're trying to convey it and give people recommendations. I don't want it to look quite like that. I want to have a thesis. You're thinking about this.
[00:26:32] Rahim Thawer: And then here are a bunch of stories to help us think about the landscape of connection seeking. So I think therapists will find it very useful. But I am trying to get a broader community engaged in some of that, some of what I have to say.
[00:26:47] Michelle: Yeah. I think the fact that you do talk about monogamy in there as well as sex seeking or open relationships. I think in my practice anyways, I have a large proportion of queer clients and a lot of actually gay couples, male couples.
[00:27:12] Michelle: And I find that either they're coming in as a monogamous couple where maybe somebody is wanting to express themselves sexually but in an open way and be able to talk about it with their partner versus going out, you know, on their own. And they're still just as working with hetero couples. I think that there are it's hard to get people to think in the middle. Right.
[00:27:44] Michelle: Even though I know in gay communities that having sex that outside of relationships is something that I think has been happening for a long time. Right. But yet there are still judgments within the community about who is doing relationships right.
[00:28:10] Rahim Thawer: Exactly. Exactly. And I think there's a perception. There are many perceptions of what an open relationship means. And to some people, it might mean that you are. You are trying something as a way to prevent a relationship from failing or to prevent a relationship from ending. So sometimes people see it as well.
[00:28:39] Rahim Thawer: You know, they couldn't meet each other's needs or they fell out of love or one of them isn't happy with the sex life. And, you know, that could be true. I think often that's not true. I think for a lot of people, once they experience a secure base of a longer term relationship or something that feels more sustainable, the freedom to explore becomes more exciting. There's less to lose. The rejection from a casual partner impacts you less. Right.
[00:29:13] Rahim Thawer: It doesn't grind on your psyche in the same way. And so I think about it as, you know, like the caregiver, your early childhood mother, that's the safe base that lets you explore. I think there's a lot of gay men's socialization and men's socialization that's about sex. But I don't think we get to explore it with the same safety until we're in the relationship. Right. And so I think there's something beautiful about that. And I think that analysis or that perspective gets missed. Right. The other thing people will often say is like, oh, these are men.
[00:29:47] Rahim Thawer: Men are pigs. All men want is sex. And like. I don't think that that like that's. There's nothing helpful about that analysis. Like it just doesn't. It doesn't do anything.
[00:30:00] Michelle: It's not helpful for anybody.
[00:30:02] Rahim Thawer: No. Because it just assumes that it reifies this idea that men want sex and women don't. And that's not helpful for anybody or even heterosexual couples. For guys who aren't having a ton of sex or don't find casual sex satisfying. They feel inadequate because they're like, this is what I'm supposed to do as a man. And it's not working out. So something's wrong with me. So we need to shift that. We really need to shift that.
[00:30:28] Michelle: That is. I find to be really interesting work. Whether I'm. And sometimes especially working with hetero couples where the woman. Where maybe the man in the relationship is wanting more sex. And they have these ideas of, well, I'm just an object to you. You just want to get off. And that is when I take that opportunity to say, well, let's talk about this. Right. And let's.
[00:31:03] Michelle: And I'll tell you what I know, which is that men feel a huge connection through. Sex can feel a huge connection from sex with their partner. It is a very big way. It can be a very big way to feel close. So it's not anybody that they just want to get off with. It's actually you.
[00:31:32] Rahim Thawer: Yes. Yes. And to add to that, you know, in line with what you've heard, you know, I've similarly heard gay men say, well, if we're open, then that really means that we're not committed to each other. Our relationship is only about sex. And I would say, no, I think the I think the the inverse of that is true. I think it means that sex is of interest to you, but that your partner is prioritizing
[00:32:01] Rahim Thawer: you for so many other things that make up your beautiful connection in life together. You know, and it takes a while for people to wrap their head around around this.
[00:32:14] Michelle: It takes a lot of trust. I think a lot of trust with the therapist initially, and then which then allows them to believe and then trust each other in those conversations and the work that we do. So I know that you're a busy, busy person. One last question for you before we wrap up.
[00:32:42] Rahim Thawer: Okay.
[00:32:43] Michelle: I want to know what what are your plans next? When are you coming home back to Canada? Are you going to continue? Because you travel tons, eh? Like through your life, you've been all over the place.
[00:33:03] Rahim Thawer: I have.
[00:33:04] Michelle: But yeah, will you come back?
[00:33:06] Rahim Thawer: I will come back. Traveling. What got me started was I feel like I took kind of a big risk as a younger person when I was 21 and I was at the University of Waterloo. I did an exchange program and I went to the University of the National University of Singapore for a year. And that experience at 21 really shifted things for me. It made it possible for me to, you know, like budget, become street smart, figure out how
[00:33:40] Rahim Thawer: to navigate challenging situations, all of that kind of stuff. So I've been very lucky to do that. My time in South Africa is coming to an end. I'm going to leave in just under a month. I have some family to see neighboring countries in East Africa. But my next plan is to go to Zagreb, Croatia for the fall. And I'm going there to continue writing. And I hope to be back in Toronto by Christmas, which I'm sure I will be because I'll be out of money by then. And then I'll be in Toronto for a little bit longer, looking for full-time employment and
[00:34:15] Rahim Thawer: getting back into the game. This travel stint was really about taking advantage of the virtual possibility with COVID.
[00:34:24] Michelle: You're awesome. Rahim, thank you. It was such a pleasure talking with you. And I wish you the best of luck with everything that you do in your career, because I really see you as a star in the area of sex and sexuality and just diversity and LGBT issues. And you're really special. And thank you for taking the time to meet with me.
[00:34:59] Rahim Thawer: My absolute pleasure. And I'll see you soon. I'll catch you on the flip side.
[00:35:05] Michelle: Yippee! Amazing! Bye-bye. If you have a question, a confession, or an inspirational story, send me an email to the confession booth at michelle@getsome.ca and you just might hear it on the air. I hope you enjoyed GETSOME. If you'd like to listen to more episodes, subscribe to wherever you like to listen to podcasts.
[00:35:34] Michelle: And until then, be kind to yourself, be curious, and when you're ready, your sexual journey will unfold.