This is a story about how one couple embarks on a journey of rediscovering their sexual chemistry after 15 years, employing mindfulness, cannabis, and flowstate. Listen as host, Certified Sex Therapist Michelle Fischler, interviews Ellevan and Winny Clarke, hosts of the Disciplined Stoners podcast on how covid helped to reopen their door to sexual exploration.
This is a story about how one couple embarks on a journey of rediscovering their sexual chemistry after 15 years, employing mindfulness, cannabis, and flowstate. Listen as host, Certified Sex Therapist Michelle Fischler, interviews Ellevan and Winny Clarke, hosts of the Disciplined Stoners on how covid helped to reopen their door to sexual exploration.
Show Notes:
[00:00:17] Michelle introduces the topic of rediscovering sexual chemistry after 15 years using mindfulness and cannabis.
[00:02:39] Ellevan talks about mindfulness, flow state, and his interests, including being a freestyler, comedian, singer, and cook.
[00:08:26] Winny opens up about her recent transformation, breaking free from old patterns and becoming more confident and curious.
[00:13:14] Michelle explains the concept of mindfulness and sensate focus therapy for deeper connections during sex.
[00:18:14] Ellevan and Winny's journey with mindfulness and its impact on every aspect of their lives, including sex and eating.
[00:22:30] COVID brought them closer and deepened their intimacy, leading to more open discussions about sex and their needs.
[00:27:21] They discuss jealousy in their relationship and how they navigate it through open communication.
[00:31:00] Winny shares her fantasy but also admits that she's not ready to put it into practice.
[00:35:53] The episode ends with a discussion about the importance of embracing mindfulness and breaking societal taboos around sex and body image to create a healthier and more fulfilling intimate life
[00:36:11] This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios.
Winny Clarke is Netherlands born, Canadian raised, and resides in Toronto. She has been passionate about acting from a very young age, always involving herself in school and community theatre. In 2006, she attended The American Musical and Dramatic Academy in Los Angeles, where she studied for two years. Upon the program's completion, she moved to Vancouver, where she took to the stage in plays "Here on the Flight Path", "The Wedding Singer", and "Alice in Wonderland". In 2013, Clarke moved to Toronto with a dream of film and television. Since then, Clarke has appeared in 14 feature films, most notably being "Christmas By Chance" airing on Lifetime and the SuperChannel. Clarke is also a yoga teacher with over ten years of experience in the field, a dedicated meditation practitioner, and an animal lover and advocate. Disciplined Stoners is a space where Winny can explore and question her upbringing, decision making, and life’s purpose
Ellevan is an internationally loved vocalist, producer and entertainer from Toronto, Canada. With over 10,000 hours in the field, Ellevan earned his stripes by setting a world record of recording, producing and shooting 365 songs and music videos, in 365 days in 2018. With the buzz of his world record, he then went on an international freestyle tour throughout Indonesia, Jamaica, and U.S.A, sharing his passion for music abroad. He’s written for and collaborated with platinum status artists, Karl Wolf and Craig Smart. When he’s not in the studio, you can find him on stage for the cannabis friendly series Disciplined Stoners Live, where he, along with a live band, creates songs on the spot via audience interaction and suggestion.
Where to find DIsciplined Stoners:
Disciplined Stoners: https://www.instagram.com/disciplinedstoners
Winny Clarke: https://www.instagram.com/winnyclarke
Ellevan: https://www.instagram.com/ellevanmusic
Sign up for Winny’s Mailing List here: http://eepurl.com/gCIZg1
Follow us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1XDoMv08pT9EfyBaCXNnaj?si=7a557f0e0bf14d4d
Follow and Listen to Ellevan on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/0G1sZ8clT2oSvzQ3IL2ZRd?si=vJVw9FLyS6GtF453Ny21kQ
[00:00:00] Michelle: My name's Michelle Fischler and this is GETSOME
[00:00:17] Michelle: This is a story about how one couple rediscovered their sexual chemistry after 15 years using mindfulness, cannabis.
[00:00:29] Winny: Sometimes I'm like, we're in the middle of a session, and something will pop into my head, like an email that I have to write, and I'm like, yo, girl, what the fuck is going on? You've got a dick in your mouth, like, let's get back to that.
[00:00:43] Michelle: [00:00:44] During the pandemic, when so many couples struggled to keep their sex lives alive, this couple had a sexual awakening.
[00:00:53] Winny: We were having a lot of sex during that time and eventually you have to start talking. That is really is when my sexual life blasted open.
00:01:03] Michelle: But first, let me take you back a few months. I'm having some pizza with my best friend, Tracy, who had come to visit me from Ottawa, and this is our opportunity to really catch up. And we're at this beautiful pizzeria and I can't keep her attention because she keeps looking at the dude that just walked into the restaurant. He's very easy on the eyes. He's got a smile from ear to ear. He says hello to everybody who's sitting around at the bar and he's talking about mindfulness and he's talking about flow state and I'm thinking “who the fuck is this guy?”
[00:01:41] Ellevan:Flow state is where your brain is. Like miracles can happen. The infinite door happens. Flow state is what athletes get into. It opens up a whole new door for like opportunity.
[00:01:52] Michelle: I stand up because I want to go to the washroom, but all of these little metal beads catch my eye. So I'm running my hand through [00:02:00] them and he notices and he comes over and as I just lift the balls up with my hand, he coughs as though I'm giving him a prostate exam.
[00:02:11] Ellevan: It looked like she was giving the bar a cough test.
[00:02:15] Michelle: And then I start laughing so hard. And the first thing that I say is, Who are you? He tells me his name's Eleven. I don't believe him. He pulls up his Instagram. Turns out Ellevan is this... Like, freestyler, comedian, singer, cook.
[00:02:39] Ellevan: I bring my scrappy fuckboy attitude to absolutely everything.
[00:02:44] Michelle: He and his wife have a podcast called Discipline Stoners, where they talk all about cannabis, but they also talk a lot about their relationship. They talk about anxiety, they talk about sex, they talk about Winny and her yeast infections.
[00:02:59] Winny: I never knew you could communicate like that before.
[00:03:02] Michelle: If you are in a long term relationship and you want to hear the story of two people who have been together for almost two decades who are able to reinvigorate their sex life, you have to listen to this episode with Ellevan and Winny
[00:03:24] Michelle: So when I see the two of you together, There is this very clear sexual tension and when I try To understand it because that's what I do. I come up with these different parts of How I think you've managed to keep your sex life alive for the last 14 years. Do you want to hear them?
[00:03:54] Winny: Yeah. Yes, please.
[00:03:55] Michelle: You are really playful with each other and you laugh a lot, and I think that that is one part. Two, I think the two of you nurture desire, just the way that you are flirty with each other or, you know, we'll make jokes about sex that it keeps it like not too far away from like your mind.
[00:04:24] Michelle: Three. Is that I get the sense that the both of you are really like adventures and like to do new things and sometimes it's together and sometimes it's separate but you both feel excited about it for each other?
[00:04:40]Michelle:Four is that I've heard you have really deep conversations with each other in your podcast, and just like how you talk about having a yeast infection and saying, well, well, yeah, it was because like we banged the night before and like laughing about it and being so open about it. But honestly, it's the unsexy shit. That I think really brings people together. Sometimes you're so connected that it's hard then to step out of that and then have sex or like have risky, adventurous sex. Sometimes I see that. Where you've got these like, besties together; They almost feel like they think for the other person, but that's not always conducive to a really good sex life.
[00:05:31] Like a good sex life is, is to be able to, like step outside of all of that deep, intimate, sometimes even hurtful stuff that can happen in those moments and like step out and almost like you're in a different. world, but with a familiar person. I'm so interested in the way that the two of you think about your relationship with yourself and your relationship with other people and not getting too caught up in what you think people are thinking about you or even what people are saying because that's just their Thought it's not a fact right and I'm actually super curious about when this way of thinking happened for the two of you.
[00:06:24] Winny: This is pretty recent for me I would say like I've called myself a love addict in the past where I've created a situation Where I've made myself feel very safe By making sure that everyone that I loved got what I felt they needed from me.
[00:06:40] And obviously that's not sustainable. And eventually your batteries run out and you burn out. And then you figure out how to start that pattern all over again, once you recharge. So I was in that cycle for a really long time. I would maybe even say up until like last June was when I really had like, broke out of some type of construct that I was living in. And it was very unstable and super rocky. And I went back and forth for a lot of that, like the last six to eight months now. I'm in this place where it feels good to do things that people might think is like taboo or is going against the grain. I've never felt that before.
[00:07:24] And all of a sudden, I don't know, I'm in my thirties. I started stand up. I'm getting more confident. I'm not really sure what. But I'm like, let me see what this does. You know, I'm just more curious and I'm questioning things more now than ever before. I actually had a conversation with my mom that led to that.
[00:07:41] I showed her like a sexy photo shoot that I did and she like, wasn't really having it. She was like, but that's not necessary. And I was like, but what is necessary?
[00:07:51] Michelle: Well, that is, it's such a great question. Like what is necessary? Who created the line of like what is necessary or appropriate and what isn't, right?
[00:08:02] It's like, do you want to sleep with somebody on the first date? Like, yeah, lots of people have thoughts about it, but what do you want to do? Like, there's no right decision.
[00:08:13] Winny: Yeah. And I've really always leaned on other people for my decision making. And so, like, this is the first time I'm exploring my, like, own decision making based upon...
[00:08:24] really just things that I'm curious about. I don't know what I like and don't like yet, still. Like, I'm still learning right now just by making decisions and trying. So it's relatively new for me is the short answer.
[00:08:36] Michelle: I work with a lot of people that are really in a very tight, small box where they are kind of like living their life safely, but They're starting to get uncomfortable because of, you know, fear around, let's say asking for what you need or setting a boundary or saying no, or like making a move that could possibly like. I don't know, you would worry about failure, all of those things, right? And so people will tend to just, instead of making those choices to change the way that they're doing things, they'll kind of stay in that box. And it sounds like for you, you found your way out. I did, I think. Well, I mean, I think we always go in and out.
[00:09:25] Yeah. Ellevan, you were saying that that's pretty hot
[00:09:31] Ellevan: Oh, so hot! Breaking rules, having fun, being yourself, not changing for other people, listening to your gut. That
[00:09:38] Michelle: must be like a huge shift for you to see because you guys have been together for like 14 years, right? Yeah. I imagine you're just like looking at Winnie and being like, what the fuck?
[00:09:48] Like, this is hot, but like, who are you?
[00:09:54] Ellevan: I've been waiting for this for mad time. Yeah. The question you just asked, like, when did this happen? Like for me, like my mother equipped me with the confidence from young time to be like, Oh, teacher perceivable authority figure. No, no, no. You don't get it. I'm right.
[00:10:09] You don't get it. Like, I'm on the earth at this time period to spread light. Like an early clocked indigo child. So just like, I don't know, that's your problem. These are my moral laws. So
[00:10:20] Michelle: Wait, this is what you grew up with?
[00:10:22] Ellevan: Yeah, fuck everyone. This is me. I've been here the whole time.
[00:10:33] Michelle: How are you drawn to each other? Like, what was it that drew you to each other?
[00:10:40] Ellevan: Trauma bonding.
[00:10:42] Winny: Comedy. No, I think that's why we stayed together for a while. But yeah, no, we, we joined the same improv troupe that was created over Craigslist.
[00:10:52] Ellevan: And like, yeah, I was The wild wacky colorful one and when he was like the the really strong B player
[00:11:01] Winny: And I give you the the ball before you put it in the hoop Yeah, I'm the pass before the hoop and I'm the
[00:11:06] Ellevan: flashy dunker.
[00:11:07] Winny: Yeah, I did that a lot to make people love me, essentially. But now that I'm on the other side of that, and I have understood that a little bit more. It's the hardest role. I'm choosing to be that now. Yeah. It's the best role. And it is. It's fucking feels good. It's so good.
[00:11:22] Michelle: Yes. And you choose it though, until, you know, if it doesn't feel good, then you know that you've stepped over your boundary.
[00:11:30] Ellevan: You should be the star sometimes too. Our evolution together has also allowed for me to have enough Self awareness to build restraint because I damn near sometimes took up too much space that didn't allow her to express sometimes and I look back on those moments with remorse because i'm like, oh shit like I I killed her potential in that moment because I was so wide expanded.
[00:11:55] Winny: [00:11:56] But I would argue that I wasn't in a place to step into that space.
[00:12:00] Ellevan: Or else you would have pushed me like now, you know. Now I do.
[00:12:04] Winny: There's been times where I've been like, Hey, if you, if you want me to be the strong person, you've been asking me to be for 14 years. You need to back off.
[Music]
[00:12:14] Michelle:Yes. I met you out for dinner.
[00:12:16] I was with a friend of mine and as soon as like Ellevan walked into the restaurant, I like looked over and I was like, okay, like this is trouble.
[00:12:26] Ellevan: I'm very animated in most spaces.
[00:12:27] Michelle: And I was trying to have a conversation with my friends, but like I kept hearing 11, like talking about mindfulness and stuff. And like, I'm hugely into that because, well, it's hard to like, have good sex without being mindful.
[00:12:43] So I remember like. touching something.
[00:12:46] Ellevan: It was the stuff at the end of the bar and my friend Jag had just went to the bathroom and there's this hanging like, uh, metal chain link stuff and it looked like she was giving the bar a cough test. She was going like this and I made some sort of cough sort of joke like that.
[00:13:06] Michelle: And I can always appreciate somebody that number one can like, make a sexual joke and, and also talks about mindfulness.
[00:13:14] Ellevan: And by the way, I love that you said that it's impossible to have good sex without mindfulness. I've never heard someone prioritize mindfulness for that. We
[00:13:22] Michelle: learned that from Masters and Johnson.
[00:13:24] Like, I didn't make it up. Like, they learned this from watching, like, thousands of people have sex with each other. Oh, shit. What? What? Yeah, Masterson Johnson, he was a physician and Johnson was, I think, his secretary. They learned about watching all of these people have sex that the people that really struggled less with experiencing an orgasm were very much like in tune with what was happening in their body.
[00:13:53] They had to be fully entrenched in their senses and out of their mind to really [00:14:00] allow themselves to let go. And so sensei focused therapy. Which is what I would say the majority of sex therapists use in their practice for couples where they're having struggles with sex and because maybe one person is super anxious or has experienced pain or like all of those things.
[00:14:22] That you really try to create a new place to start where it's less about like it's getting out of the anxieties around like sex and, and what that might feel like and focus, focusing more just on your body so that you get out of that cycle of sex causing anxiety and. What it is, it's mindfulness, right?
[00:14:43] It's very much. Sensate Focus Therapy is very much mindfulness. And now like we have studies that have come out by Lori Brotto, where she talks about how mindfulness is really, really helpful in just shrinking that body-mind connection, because especially in [00:15:00] women. It's quite far apart, especially women in long term relationships that are struggling with desire, the body mind relationship is more difficult.
[00:15:13] Winny: Totally. Sometimes I'm like, we're in the middle of a session and something will pop into my head, like an email that I have to write or something crazy. And I'm like, Oh, yo girl. Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, you've got a dick in your mouth. Like, let's get back to that. Or some, you know, it's crazy
[00:15:33] Ellevan: though.
[00:15:33] How could you ever drift off?
[00:15:35] Winny: I know, you're right though. I, you shouldn't have to, but it's, it's bizarre.
[00:15:40] Michelle: That's why he puts it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:43] Winny: Be present.
[00:15:45] Ellevan: That's when I get to start yelling.
[00:15:47] Winny: But I find those thoughts very intrusive. Yeah. And, and I'm still learning how to catch them. Yeah. Sometimes it's like a minute goes by before I realize that I'm somewhere else.
[00:16:01] Michelle: Yes. Very, very common. And a lot of people, especially, you know, if they've experienced pain or trauma, they've done such a good job at disconnecting their body from their mind for good reasons. Like it was very adaptive to not feel the pain. There are so many women in particular missing cues of arousal in their body, like just day to day, because they did this study where they showed erotic material to women who are struggling with low desire and the probes on their body was showing that they were experiencing arousal, but when they were asked if they were experiencing arousal while they were watching this, they said no. And so mindfulness, like they went through this eight week program for mindfulness that Lori Brotto created and they became much more aware of what was happening in their body through practice.
[00:16:56] Because it's a skill. It is. Right. So how did you guys get in to mindfulness? Was this, like, also part of your upbringing, Eleven, or was this, is this newer for the two of you? Great,
[00:17:10] Ellevan: Great assumption and question. Believe it or not, no, actually. I flailed in aggression until about twenty... Something. And I was a stand up comedian.
[00:17:20] Never really centered, though, in what I was doing, until I started pursuing music. Yeah. Music lended itself to my brain as an opportunity to expand its neural pathway into flow state.
[00:17:31] Michelle: What is the flow state?
[00:17:33] Ellevan: Flow state is where your brain is, like, miracles can happen. The infinite door happens. Flow state is what athletes get into.
[00:17:40] It opens up a whole new door for, like, opportunity.
[00:17:43] Michelle: Do you get into flow state when you have sex?
[00:17:46] Ellevan: I'd say so. Most times.
[00:17:48] Winny: Yeah, I wouldn't say like it's 100% all of the time. Yeah. But it's a good thing. I know
[00:17:53] Michelle: it's not. Like for him or for you, Winnie? Like are you saying that Ellevan gets into the flow state? Or would you say that you can get there too?
[00:18:00] No, we can get there
[00:18:01] Winny: together, I think. I think that there's moments where you're just like... It's magic, right? Like it feels like time and space is suspended and it's just like two bodies.
[00:18:14] Michelle: And has it always been that way for the two of you?
[00:18:18] Ellevan: When I was 25, I read Thinking Grow Rich, and then this led to Bob Proctor, and that led to Abraham Hicks, which led to affirmation.
[00:18:26] So here, that mindfulness, like that documented, let's learn how to be a better person, and let's try to meditate, like that mindfulness. happened at 25. And then I was two years into it. And then Winnie was not about it. And then she got on board, even though she was already a yogi. I got flow state in music, and she got flow state in yoga.
[00:18:47] But we weren't really sure what that was, even though, even though it was referenceable. But it never played a role where I would ever get to the point to say I'm a philosopher, like now with my book right now [00:19:00] is like, we had no grasp of what mindfulness was, until I started to study study yet because I wanted to break out of the matrix, the system, no job, fuck that, not working for me.
[00:19:11] All those books that helped me along the way all said, take responsibility for the power inside of you, meditate, be mindful, live life this way, this mindful way. That's like the law of attraction, mindfulness. And then it made its way into everything else, including our sex, including our eating, how you treat your body, all this stuff that now we, now we practice.
[00:19:33] Flexible eating it's call it mindful eating and everything Intuitive living we go intuitive living so we're lucky to be here But it's been a grueling road actually to trim the fat on all the shitty behavior that humans naturally have.
[00:19:50] Winny: Five or six years in of meditating every day. It's not negotiable for us but at the beginning when you start these types of practices, any type of practice that involves mindfulness.
[00:20:02] You can't expect yourself to go overnight and be like a guru.
[00:20:05] Michelle: Yeah, but people like have those expectations. They try it for, you know, a day and it's super hard. And then they're like, it's not for me. And because it's hard, that's probably why you should really stick with it. I mean,
[00:20:19] Winny: I had an interesting experience because we were living in Vancouver when I really got into hot yoga specifically.
[00:20:26] The studio that I had just gone to for like one class was hosting a three month challenge. And I was just like, I'll do that. Like I'll do five days a week for three months. And it really impacted my life in a positive way. I got structure for the first time in like a disciplined way. Some health issues that were happening ceased.
[00:20:51] To happen and all of these, these positive things happen. So I think there's stepping stones when you are talking about mindfulness. Was I connecting to my body in ways that I had never had before? Yes. Would you call that mindfulness? Yes. Did I know what I was doing at the time? No. Did it lead to further inquiry and curiosity about meditation, you know, about these different practices? Yes.
[00:21:17] Michelle: Did you feel that mindfulness helped you in sexual exploration?
[00:21:24] Winny: My sexual journey feels so complex. The best sex that I'm having right now is when I remind myself to get back in my body.
[00:21:32] Michelle: Was it mindfulness that then helped you to take up more space when it came to letting in pleasure and taking up that time?
[00:21:44] Winny: Yeah. I really have to thank COVID for it, actually. We were so And there was nothing to do for months. So we were having a lot of sex during that time. And eventually you have to start talking. The amount that you're [00:22:00] having, there just needs conversation around that. Um, so. So I think that, honestly, that gave me the time and that.
[00:22:09] Intimacy that we got getting to know each other even further during COVID. There was nothing else to talk about. There was nothing else to watch. We watched everything. You know, so like, I think that really is when my, like, sexual life Became, like, blasted open, and now I'm much more open to a lot. I'm still, like, scared.
[00:22:32] There's still, like, a lot of fear around things. I feel so much better this way, and I think to your question of, like, how would you keep it alive for 14 years, like, you gotta make some compromise, and you gotta move into those fears.
[00:22:43] Michelle:. Yeah, sometimes it is stepping a little bit outside of your comfort zone. Totally.
[00:22:50] Winny: And then you talk about it afterwards, you know. Talking about it during is, that's not the way for me, like, it's after the sexual encounter
[00:23:00] Michelle: Or like far ahead or Or ahead. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:04] Winny: That's been fantastic. I never knew you could communicate like
[00:23:07] Michelle: that before. I was listening to one of your podcasts and I think you were talking about yeast infections.
[00:23:13] Yeah. Right. And I used to get them a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which, by the way. It can really impact. Your sex life, especially if they're reoccurring because then you start to become afraid that when you have sex You're gonna get an infection and then it just creates this like really vicious cycle. Same with UTIs and so it's like how to once Things get sorted out.
[00:23:39] Acknowledge that that happened and start again to create that relationship with sex so that it's not connected to fear. Yeah.
[00:23:48] Ellevan: I'm very good at starting again and not being scared. Remembering my scrappy fuckboy attitude to absolutely everything. Good attitude. Yeah, Winnie has been amazing with like, honestly, [00:24:00] her own relationship around communication and sex.
[00:24:02] I don't know how far you're gonna go into this, but like, you know, in terms of taking time to make her come, like, I always prioritize that. Yeah. Since we've been communicating, like, more, like, especially, shout out 2020, it's been even better, more great explosive sex.
[00:24:18] Michelle: Yeah, I would say that communication, I mean, when people come in to see me and they're really struggling with sex, first we get comfortable with just talking about it.
[00:24:30] It's impossible to have really good sex if you don't even know what to say that you like
[00:24:39] Winny: or like because you don't even know sometimes and the shame.
[00:24:41] Ellevan: Yeah, what's like that's such a weird thing around sex Like how the fuck did we allow sex to be put down their guilt and shame and like don't masturbate growing up And oh if you if you take too much time coming you should be Or even like, we talk about like, dick, like masculinity, like [00:25:00] not having an 11 inch penis, I should feel inferior.
[00:25:04] Where it's like, I could just feel good about my beautiful cu I mean, I'm good either way, but like, it's like, it's there's just weird shit that's like, baked in.
[00:25:12] Michelle: Well, all your masculinity, it's like, your reason to be in this world is your dick.
[00:25:17] Ellevan: My reason for existing.
[00:25:18] Michelle:rAnd so it creates so much stress for a lot of guys because, especially when their, their dick isn't working the way that they want it to, and then they're just like.
[00:25:30] all their whole sense of self and, and who they are as a man, it's very scary for them. And I feel terrible because we've all been lied to about male sexuality.
[00:25:38] Ellevan: Like even with nudity, what have we done with nudity and made this like beautiful, natural body thing, some sort of taboo. It's so you guys could be fucking sold.
[00:25:50] By the way, that's why that was done. Let's like, keep those titties in there. So I remember getting nervous as a performer. I've always been like pro [00:26:00] nudity. I'm like, yo, fuck this anxiety. And I went over to Hanlon's. It's a beautiful Island Beach and it's the nude Beach and it started originally as LGTB, right?
[00:26:11] That was their little Oasis and then. It was so kindly evolved into inviting everyone and yeah, you're free. It doesn't have to be sexualized.
[00:26:20] Winny: It can be also, and that's okay. Go have sex! Yeah, like, it's all good over there. It's such a beautiful vibration. Oh, we love it there.
[00:26:30] Michelle: Yeah. And that really helps also with body image, right?
[00:26:33] Being around other people who are naked, who like have bodies of all different kinds. Stop comparing. Exactly. Comparing kills all joy.
[00:26:54] With the two of you, when it comes to your relationship and kind of where you are on [00:27:00] your journey, and you know, both of you are professionals, you have your own separate careers, how do you manage Staying connected, like, in terms of your relationship, and also how do you manage people who are, like, hitting on the other person?
[00:27:20] Ellevan: Good question.
[00:27:21] Winny: I just started getting jealous in, like, the last two years. I was never jealous before.
[00:27:27] Ellevan: I was on tour across the states, nothing. I never fucked around, though. I'm always so focused, but, like, nothing
[00:27:33] Winny:. I'd have, I'd have my mom. His mom, his aunt, other women around me be like, Did you see he's with some girls right now?
[00:27:43] Like, like, in a music video shoot. It was a professional shoot.
[00:27:46] Ellevan: And these girls are all way more famous than me. They're not gonna fucking risk it all for me. Like, they're, they're killing it.
[00:27:53] Winny: Like, Hmm hmm. I felt so secure in myself. And then, yeah, over the last two years, I don't [00:28:00] know. I've gained some more like you're mine.
[00:28:03] Emotional attachment. I don't know if that was covid as well. I'm not really sure. We've been just exploring the jealousy a bit and it's ups, ups and downs for sure. I'm okay with flirting, like I think flirt
[00:28:16] Ellevan: fun. I'm a flirtatious guy. I flirt with men.
[00:28:18] Winny: Yeah, he flirt, flirt. He flirts with everyone. And I, I kind of like to see it, honestly.
[00:28:23] Like it's nice. Like flirting is like a really nice way. I feel like I flirt with my girlfriend sometimes.
[00:28:30] Ellevan: Like, I take the time to lay down a compliment. I take the time to lay down, lay down a nice feeling
[00:28:34] Winny: Yeah. And there, you know, there is, I suppose, flirtation that, that becomes sexual and maybe that might get me a little riled up, you know, a little like, what you doing, but other than that, like moment.
[00:28:48] I think it's great. You're a very attractive human being. So I imagine that that happens.
[00:28:54] Ellevan: And I see people admire Winnie. So obviously, like, to [00:29:00] watch Winnie miss people hit on her all the time is so good because it's like, she doesn't, she's not brushing them off because I'm there. She's like not even available and that's that's so deeply that she's not even on that frequency.
[00:29:17] You know, I'm out here like master of the rings on that frequency, like tossing out yellow cards to everybody. And she's out here like, there's a game on. And I love that. But she's so gorgeous. I watch people like Lots.
[00:29:33] Michelle: And what is that like for you? How does that feel for you when you see that?
[00:29:36] Ellevan: I mean I'm the guy who ended up getting a job at the restaurant she worked at because I was so jealous because I would go to the bar and hang out there all day and look at people who were going to hit on her.
[00:29:48] Oh, Italian, Catholic.
[00:29:51] Winny: It was not healthy for a bit. Not healthy. He auditioned. Okay, get this. Oh, this is so good! I told him that I was auditioning. I got an audition for the [00:30:00] lead of the wedding singer um, musical. Fuck that! It was a musical and that's what I wanted to do for a bit. I wanted to be on Broadway.
[00:30:07] Because I was auditioning for the lead and might have to kiss the other lead, the two leads eventually kiss, he decided he was going to audition as well. Oh my
[00:30:18] Ellevan: gosh. So I got it. And she didn't! And then since I got it or whatever Someone dropped out And he suggested
[00:30:29] Winny: me But I didn't play the lead, I was just in the chorus But I still wanted to be a part of it.
[00:30:37] Ellevan: Can you believe that shit?
[00:30:39] Like, like, like me cooking up ideas in my head that like her male friends are moving in on her. I was like 11 years ago. I'm so jealous. But I've been getting less. So she's been getting more and I've been getting less. [00:30:5
1] Michelle: Well, I was gonna say, like, how it's flipped, right? Where for you... Winnie, it's like the two of you got [00:31:00] really intimate during COVID, right?
[00:31:03] And it sounds like you were really able to like go deeper into your intimacy around sex with Eleven, like just to really like be vulnerable and. Yes. Take up that space and allow pleasure and time, right? And ask for what you want, maybe. I don't know. I'm like totally not watching you guys have sex, but like, I'm just like, I'm just like thinking about that level of vulnerability.
[00:31:27] I wondered now, you know, like how strong that can. really be and feel that you're just like, Oh, it feels almost like scary. The loss of that, right? Even though, you know, things are good, right. And solid, but it's just even the thought of like the possibility.
[00:31:48] Winny: I don't want him to try other puss and have it be better than what we've just now experienced together.
[00:31:54] Exactly. That's like very threatening.
[00:31:57] Michelle: It's not uncommon, right? I work with people who [00:32:00] are. In open relationships sometimes. Right. And so the guys tend to be more open to the idea of their female partner being with another guy. It is oftentimes the woman in the relationship that. They're concerned less about the emotional connection maybe.
[00:32:20] And it's more like there's a lot put into the sex piece. There's a story in their mind about just how like passionate and connected it is. Right. And it's just, even though. You know, the guy's like, look, I'm just wanting to have sex and, like, get off, but, like, I really am coming home because I love you, and it's not comparable, right?
[00:32:43] Although there are some women that really get turned on with their partner being with other people, right? It, like, kind of feeds into that fear. It's like a fantasy desire.
[00:32:55] Winny: There's, yeah, so I have, I have a bit of that fantasy. [00:33:00] But to put that into play makes me, like, I don't even want to tell anyone that I have that fantasy because then, like, someone might be like, oh, I heard you had that fantasy.
[00:33:08] Like, I'm willing to do that. And I'd be like, get off, bitch. Like, do you see how, like, reactive I am to it? I'm not ready. I'm not ready yet
[00:33:15] Michelle: Yeah. But the jealousy thing is something I think. People feel really guilty about it, that they feel jealous. I do! And it's just like, it makes sense though. It's not something I think that people should feel badly about and guilty for feeling it.
[00:33:28] Ellevan: It taps into a weakness. It's truly our own weakness. When I feel jealous, I feel out of control.
[00:33:36] Winny: And it's always just come down to communication. We're pretty good now at like owning up, because it's kind of embarrassing to be like, I'm really jealous.
[00:33:45] Ellevan: Not much is embarrassing. You know, like, yeah.
[00:33:46] Like, it's just like. Fuck dude, I'm feeling jealous or like I found this, or this, or, or whatever, and it's like, Yeah. And there's definitely some shame tossed around sex, and there's, like, remorse around mistakes [00:34:00] that are made, nothing that fully breaks anything, but, like, ultimately cause discussions, and cause you to go into yourself deeper, as to what you may actually need.
[00:34:11] Maybe you're just needing validation on some level. I think most times, like, what jealousy inches towards is the curiosity of what that person needs.
[00:34:20] Michelle: Those conversations that are hard and scary, that is what really builds connection and helps people to feel better and to feel more secure, like when you can say, I'm feeling a bit jealous and then one of you responds with, Oh my God, like, tell me about it.
[00:34:40] Or what can I do to help instead of, well, you shouldn't feel jealous. Yeah. Like, deal with it.
[00:34:46] Ellevan: Even looking at it objectively, being like, let's explore this. Imagine you're a character in a game, in a story, so you take the personal zing out of it and, and you don't feel so vulnerable and insecure, but you're just like, isn't that a [00:35:00] unique, interesting thing, that this should trigger that?
[00:35:03] You're allowed to disagree. You're allowed to be like, I don't see that line. Yeah. Like I've straight up said to Wynne, like, If I don't do this anymore, it's only because you don't like it. It's not because I think it's wrong. But, and, but that's enough.
[00:35:22] Winny: Like, but, but I'll respect you enough I'm also fine
[00:35:23] Ellevan: with that. Yeah, so, and I'm like, okay. I didn't, I haven't done it since. Like, okay, like learning. Like, and I'll push the boundaries just enough to be like, okay.
[00:35:35] Michelle: Winny and Eleven. So lovely talking to you, I had so much fun.
Winny: That really flew by.
[00:35:53] Michelle: Thank you for being so open. And where do people find you? Because I'm sure people are listening and they're thinking like “Who are these people?”
[00:35:55] Ellevan: Thank you. So we are Discipline Stunners. We're the [00:36:00] gateway drug to mindfulness. So we're on Instagram, Discipline Stunners. And yeah, we discuss mindfulness. And thank you Michelle so much for having us on. It was so nice to chat.
[00:36:11] Michelle: That was my conversation with Eleven and Winny. This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios. If you have show ideas or a question you want me to answer in an episode, email me at michelle at getsome. ca and don't forget to follow me on Instagram. Instagram at get some underscore podcast, you'll get insights on sex and sexuality, dating tips and behind the scenes between episodes.
[00:36:44] Thank you for listening.