I had the incredible opportunity to speak with the remarkable Marlee Liss. Marlee is a somatic educator, award-winning speaker, author, restorative justice advocate and lesbian Jewish feminist. Marlee made history in the justice system when her sexual assault case became the 1st in North America to conclude with restorative justice through the courts. Since then, she has coached hundreds of women and non-binary folk in healing shame and transforming trauma. I had the privilege of talking with Marlee about her story, what somatic education is and the positive impact that somatic healing can have for survivors of sexual assault and healing shame. Get ready for a thought-provoking and empowering conversation!
Today, I had the incredible opportunity to speak with the remarkable Marlee Liss. Marlee is a somatic educator, award-winning speaker, author, restorative justice advocate and lesbian Jewish feminist. Marlee made history in the justice system when her sexual assault case became the 1st in North America to conclude with restorative justice through the courts. Since then, she has coached hundreds of women and non-binary folk in healing shame and transforming trauma. I had the privilege of talking with Marlee about her story, what somatic education is and the positive impact that somatic healing can have for survivors of sexual assault and healing shame. Get ready for a thought-provoking and empowering conversation!
Show Notes
Intro:
[00:00:15] Michelle introduces Marlee Liss, restorative justice advocate, award winning speaker and somatic sex educator
[00:00:39] Marlee explains restorative justice and its focus on repair and healing
[00:01:19] Michelle discusses Marlee's groundbreaking case and its impact on her sense of self.
[00:02:00] Marlee's experience with sexual trauma and questioning her sexuality
[00:02:23] Michelle introduces somatic education and its connection to healing
[00:03:15] Marlee shares the importance feeling connected with one's body for self-care
[00:04:05] The significance of understanding our bodies' needs for healthy relationships
Start of Interview
[00:04:25] Michelle acknowledges Marlee's achievements and discusses restorative justice
[00:05:00] Marlee explains restorative justice as an approach prioritizing repair and healing
[00:06:06] Michelle asks about the somatic lens in relation to restorative justice
[00:07:00] Marlee explores the body's wisdom and the shift from judgment to recognizing function
[00:07:53] Marlee shares her journey as a dancer
[00:08:49] Exploring somatics as a means of processing trauma and healing
[00:10:25] Michelle discusses the challenges survivors face in intimate relationships
[00:11:39] Marlee reflects on her own experience with trauma, sexuality, and self-reflection
[00:12:14] The importance of building a loving relationship with oneself
[00:13:06] Marlee emphasizes the need to process trauma in a safe environment
[00:14:05] Marlee's exploration of her relationship to sexuality and boundaries
[00:15:04] Michelle highlights the societal conditioning and scripts around sexuality
[00:16:18] Marlee emphasizes the importance of relational healing and communication
[00:17:00] Michelle discusses the role of trauma-informed care in sexual relationships
[00:18:23] Marlee shares her journey towards liberation and authentic identity
[00:19:24] The significance of skillful care and trauma-informed interactions
[00:20:08] Michelle emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and having uncomfortable conversations
[00:20:54] Marlee: Talks about the discomfort of setting boundaries in the short term and the consequences of not setting boundaries in the long term.
[00:21:20] Michelle: Asks Marlee about the common reasons people seek somatic education.
[00:22:21] Marlee: Discusses the unkind conditions of Western society that are unkind to the body, such as capitalist urgency culture, burnout, vicarious trauma, and pressure to heal quickly.
[00:23:31] Marlee: Mentions the additional challenges of body shame, body image issues, disordered eating, and the impact of a culture of fat phobia and objectification.
[00:24:24] Michelle: Asks Marlee how to approach helping someone with a history of sexual trauma and body discomfort.
[00:24:49] Marlee: Emphasizes the collaborative and non-expert approach of somatic education, encouraging clients to tap into their body wisdom and recognizing the brilliance of the body's natural processes.
[00:25:37] Marlee: Suggests asking guiding questions to bring someone into their body, such as noticing sensations and exploring the wisdom of certain body movements.
[00:26:53] Michelle: Comments on the mindful aspect of the somatic approach and the importance of bringing awareness to the mind-body connection.
[00:28:19] Marlee: Defines dissociation as numbing or checking out, and explains the freeze response as a self-protective mechanism that can be observed in animals as well.
[00:31:14] Marlee: Defines glimmers as cues of safety and discusses their importance in the healing process.
[00:32:31] Marlee: Provides strategies for self-regulation during a trauma response, such as dialoguing with the body, orienting oneself, and using breath and other sensory cues.
[00:36:19] Marlee: Talks about her current projects, including a documentary and speaking engagements on topics like restorative justice, trauma-informed pleasure, and queer sex education.
[00:37:43] Marlee: Shares her contact information, including her Instagram handle, website, and newsletter.
[00:38:58] Marlee: Encourages listeners to reach out
[00:39:22] Michelle: Asks Marlee for a helpful message for someone who has experienced sexual trauma.
[00:40:26] Marlee: Expresses gratitude for the conversation and thanks the listeners.
Where to find Marlee Liss:
Marlee Liss's Website and Instagram
Don’t forget to subscribe to Marlee’s newsletter on her website for free resource guides to restorative justice, queer empowerment, and healing after trauma.
Institute for Somatic Education
This show was produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios
Show ideas or questions? Email michelle@getsome.ca and follow me on Instagram @getsome_podcast
[00:00:00] My name's Michelle Fischler, and this is GETSOME
[THEME MUSIC]
[00:00:15] Michelle: I learned about Marlee Liss when I was reading a Toronto Star News article about a woman who was sexually assaulted and instead of going through the punitive legal system, she advocated for restorative justice.
[00:00:39] Marlee: Restorative justice is, in the simplest terms, an approach to justice that prioritizes repair and healing instead of punishment.
[00:00:52] So the punitive approach would be the opposite to that, and that's what we always see on TV with courtrooms and judges and all of that stuff. And usually with the punitive approach, the focus is entirely on how do we punish the person who caused harm? Whereas the focus of the restorative approaches is how can we create healing for the people impacted by this?
[00:01:19] Michelle: Marlee was the first person in North America to have the judge decide that she could go through with this process. That was four years ago, and through that process, it allowed her to start to think more about how she thinks about herself, how she thinks about her body, how she thinks about sex, how she thinks about her sexuality.
[00:01:45] Marlee: I was feeling attraction to women and non-binary people for the first time, and so I was very confused and it was a lot to deal with at one time to be like, I just went through sexual trauma and I'm questioning this. Like it's just a lot at once.
[00:02:00] Michelle: She was able to take all the learning that she did for herself through that process and became a Somatic Educator. Somatic means becoming very aware of what happens in your body, what you feel, what you sense.
[00:02:23] Marlee: I was struggling with things like panic attacks and I would break out into hives. I don't think I was that aware of all those processes happening, but I do think our bodies and mind, psyches, whatever, have so much wisdom to reach for things that will help us process in times like that.
[00:02:45] Michelle: I wanted to speak with Marlee because in my practice I work with survivors of sexual assault, and sometimes what happens is, people get into relationships and the impacts of the sexual assault don't necessarily come out right away. And when the person starts to feel safer, it's almost like they start to process some of the trauma in the very safe and loving relationship that they're having with their partner.
[00:03:15] Marlee: One of the best things we can do for ourselves is just get into a practice of dialoguing with our bodies. So, even like, you can set an alarm on your phone once a day, and when that alarm goes off, you ask yourself, what would make me feel 1% more comfortable right now? So maybe you're sitting in an office chair and you're like, I'm gonna switch my posture.
[00:03:36] I'm gonna go get a drink of water, or I actually realize I have to go to the bathroom, so I'm gonna do that. And all that is is you training your mind and body to be in dialogue and you are practicing. Asking yourself questions and listening based on your body cues. So you're building a really wonderful skill backup.
[00:03:56] And then in moments when you do feel triggered, you're gonna feelway more capable of being like, what would make me feel 1% more safe? Right now?
[00:04:05] Michelle: When we know what our bodies need, we can tell other people what we need. And that's great for sexual relationships, for partnered relationships, for friendships, and also even for self pleasure.
[00:04:18] Here's my conversation with Marlee Liss.
[00:04:25] You made history in the justice system when your sexual assault case became the first in North America to conclude with restorative justice. Since then, you've gone on to become an award-winning speaker, author, restorative justice advocate, and now a somatic educator. We'll be focusing on your work as a somatic educator, but I was hoping you'd be able to help us understand what [00:05:00] restorative justice is.
[00:05:00] Marlee Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you so much for having me. Restorative justice is, in the simplest terms, an approach to justice that prioritizes repair and healing instead of punishment. So the punitive approach would be the opposite to that, and that's what we always see on TV with courtrooms and judges and all of that stuff.
[00:05:29] And usually with the punitive approach, the focus is entirely on how do we punish the person who caused harm? Whereas the focus in restorative approaches is how can we create healing for the people impacted by this? So I feel like it's just so much more humane and it's rooted in indigenous, Jewish, Mennonite communities.
[00:05:51] So, while my case was the first to conclude with restorative justice through the courts, Communities have been doing this on their own for like hundreds of years.
[00:06:03] Michelle: When you talk about the somatic lens, can you say more about that piece?
[00:06:06] Marlee: Yeah, so really it just means that we're including the body in our understanding of how emotions work, how we process trauma and it's kind of acknowledging that the body is incredibly wise. And so that looks like instead of being like, wow, it's so annoying that I'm so jumpy after this trauma, like my body is so weak and fragile and scared and empathetic, instead of going with that saying, oh, what's the function of my body jumping in that moment and actually like spiking an adrenaline and increasing my heart rate in case I need to run. Like what's the function of that? Is it trying to keep me safe?
[00:07:00] Is it trying to make me feel more protected? And then finding some kind of thankfulness through recognizing function and then actually being. In solidarity with my body instead of being in resistance to my body.
[00:07:08] So that shift in lens from judgment to recognizing function was so huge for me. I decided to study at the Institute for Somatic Sex Education and that was absolutely incredible and I just fell in love with it and I started offering workshops and also started being asked to speak in different contexts and at first having that kind of imposter syndrome of like, I don't know, who am I to do that?
[00:07:39] And then realizing the power of storytelling and sharing these somatic teachings as well.
[00:07:53] I have spent my whole life since I was three years old as a dancer. And I did competitive dance for most of my life, and I would have times where without even having the language or even awareness of it, I was like, wow. Dance movement through the body was what allowed me to process my entire life. Like I would get on stage sometimes and I would move myself to tears, and it would be such a cathartic thing for me.
[00:08:20] And so I do always feel like I always had this understanding of how much healing and processing can happen through the body. I think after sexual trauma that I experienced in 2016, I actually felt like dance wasn't accessible to me. Like I was too mad at my body and I was struggling with things like panic attacks and I would break out into hives if I was feeling very stressed.
[00:08:49] So I felt very, like this thing that has always allowed me to kind of regulate, and it doesn't feel supportive right now. It actually feels more triggering.
[00:09:00] And then being like, okay, well, How can I still find something that allows me to process in that way? And it eventually did lead me to somatics. And I think something so cool about that is I don't think I was that aware of all those processes happening, but I do think our bodies and mind psyches, whatever, have so much wisdom to reach for things that will help us process in times like that.
[00:09:42] Michelle: We're gonna talk more about your practice because I'm really, really curious about it because it is a place within my work that I find it very helpful to access People like you, who really in that moment are able to support people in finding exactly where they want to begin. So they may have had a traumatic experience, a sexual trauma that happened in the past, and it's just sort of been tucked away, hasn't really been doing a whole lot, and then they end up getting into a relationship like a really supportive, loving relationship.
[00:10:25] Where at the beginning of that [relationship] it was going fine, right? So still kind of in what we would call the limerence phase. When your brain is like essentially on drugs with chemicals that feel so great and kind of keep you grounded and you're very much present in your body because it's exciting and you're getting to know them and they're getting to know you.
[00:10:46] But after some time, that chemical starts to go away and you get into the deeper intimacy of the relationship and you start to kind of let your guards down. You're paying more attention to what's happening in your body, and then all of a sudden they're in a sexual situation with their partner snd they are hijacked by a flashback or something. They either hear something, or their partner touches them on their body, and it's both terrifying for them and terrifying for their partner. Neither of them really know what's going on. Right, and trying to support them through that.
[00:11:39] I wondered for you, was there a point where you decided, okay, I want to be able to take control over my body, my sexuality, and started to implement, I guess, some of the somatics that you've learned in terms of being able to express your sexuality with another human, or even just with yourself. Right?
[00:12:14] Marlee: Yeah, such an important conversation and I feel like it's one that doesn't get much representation, so I think it's so great that you're bringing that up. And I think something I wanna say too is like there can be so much shame and fear and that moment, which is totally valid, and a nice sort of, like additional frame to add is that, sometimes those things are coming up because we finally feel safe enough.
[00:12:43] To process them. And that can be a sign of like, wow, I've created a safe enough environment. I'm no longer in crisis. I have support around me. And the body says, okay, maybe we can cope with that now, or take a look at that now. Whereas prior relationships that maybe we're unhealthy or toxic environments, the body was saying, this is going to be way too much.
[00:13:06] Let's keep it down. So in a way, it's like a bit of a reflection of that safe enough thing that you've created for yourself, which is something to be proud of, and that doesn't take away from how hard it is. But I think for my own journey, it was kind of interesting because I actually feel like I was very shut down at that time and I wasn't really connecting with partners so much. I was probably experiencing hypo sexuality, which is more of an aversion to sex, but I was also questioning my sexuality for the first time. I was feeling attraction to women and non-binary people for the first time consciously, and I wasn't really feeling it for men. And so I was very confused and it was a lot to deal with. At one time to be like, I just went through sexual trauma and now I'm questioning this?
[00:14:05] Like it's just a lot at once. And I feel like because of that I was like in system override. I don't really wanna be connecting with anyone for a bit. And so I really did focus for probably the first time in my life on my own relationship to my sexuality. Not just in terms of orientation, but in terms of like my boundaries, my desires, my wants, what feels good for me, what doesn't feel good for me, what I've been taught to want versus what actually is authentic to me. And I feel like doing some of that unpacking alongside friends with the help of therapists, a lot of books that spoke about sexuality. And it was the first time I really reflected on relationship to sexuality because like so many of us, I was born, I was told, I'm a girl, I'm straight, I'm going to be with a boy.
[00:15:04] Given all these kind of societal scripts of here's who you should like, here's how you should like them. Here's when you should do this sexual act. Here's when you shouldn't. Here's the order. You should do those sexual acts. So all those scripts, and it was the first time that I was like, wait a second, I am not in a place where I can cope with crossing my boundaries even on a very subtle, subtle, subtle level. Whereas I used to do that all the time and it was lower stakes. So I think unpacking those things, I realized, wow, I've been so influenced or impacted by a culture of objectification, by rape culture, by compulsory heterosexuality, by all these different things that really predated trauma a lot.
[00:15:49] And so all that to say that reflection on our own relationship to sexuality is so important no matter what our relationship status is. if you're single, if you're with a partner, you can explore partnered practices for healing. But at the same time, I do think those practices or those reflections that are just between you and yourself are so important and potentially healing.
[00:16:18] Michelle: It's extremely powerful, right? Because when you start to build a more confident, loving relationship with yourself, you're like unstoppable.
[00:16:29] Marlee: Mm-hmm. And it really does inform all of your relationships. So like relational healing, healing with others is essential to humans, like that's part of how we're wired. But if somebody asks you like, what would feel supportive for you right now, and you haven't established that? Capacity to like, listen to your body and recognize what you need and communicate it, it will be very hard to even welcome in that relational healing.
[00:16:59] [00:17:00] Whereas if you've really done that like dialogue with yourself and reclaimed that ability to listen and and learned to communicate that, not only will you have that like strong, beautiful relationship with yourself, but you'll also be able to welcome in so much more meaningful relational healing. I mean, sexual violence shouldn't exist, right?
[00:17:22] Like we all can agree with that and in some cases it can be that catalyst that links us to support that we might have been needing for a long time. And it's not like I started to be queer or to have sexual boundaries at all after trauma. It's like I actually had those things my whole life, but because of conditioning and certain systems in our world, like homophobia, objectification, I wasn't able to connect with them] and it wasn't until trauma landed me in therapy and landed me in a really dark place where probably for the first time I was admitting that I need help because our culture also really shames people for needing help. So being in that place where I said, wow, I can't deny that this has impacted me and I can't deny that I need help, that's what got me to say, wow, these are actually things I've been carrying with me forever.
[00:18:23] That I'm finally addressing so well is incredibly painful and challenging and hard. It was also an essential time and a time of building foundations for like what is now really beautiful joy. Really beautiful liberation and authenticity and trauma-informed relationship and proud queer identity.
[00:18:49] Michelle: I was listening to you in an interview and you said, all sex should be trauma informed. I couldn't agree with you more being able to communicate with somebody about your boundaries, right? And really like taking care of each other, so, In that experience before it even happens should be the first step.
[00:19:24] Marlee: Agreed. I think it's really, skillful care is really what it is because it's like everybody wants to feel cared for. Everybody wants to feel safe, like deep, deep, deep down. And this is us learning. Okay, how can I. Help create that environment for someone that I love and how can I ensure that I get that as well, and how beautiful that this other person wants me to feel that sense of safety, like it's really just skillful care.
[00:19:56] So absolutely, I think it should be woven into every type of sex and even like into friendships, like trauma-informed friendships and all of these things.
[00:20:08] Michelle: Yeah. Not to endure uncomfortable situations, even if it's uncomfortable conversations. Right. Like about food. Mm-hmm. If someone has struggled with their own history of disordered eating and their friend is always talking about gaining weight, that can be really triggering and being able to just say, Hey, this is sort of where I'm at. Would it be okay if we don't talk about that piece? I wanna be supportive, but I also know something's happening for me that doesn't feel good. And it may feel a little uncomfortable, but it's way better than enduring and then maybe down the road. Getting mad or just cutting the person off.
[00:20:54] Marlee: Yeah, exactly. I think it's one of those things that it's like, it might feel uncomfortable in the short term, but the alternative is going to be that it's gonna feel way more uncomfortable in the long term on an ongoing basis. Do you know what I mean?
[00:21:09] Like it might be hard to set a boundary in a moment. But the alternative is enduring that boundary being crossed for years and years and years and years potentially. Right.
[00:21:20] Michelle:When somebody comes into your practice as a somatic educator, what would be some of the common reasons that people show up?
[00:21:30] Marlee: Hmm. It's interesting because I was doing a lot of one-on-one work and then small group work, and now I'm primarily doing big group workshops, big group events and sessions. So it's a little bit different, but I really think that the conditions of our culture, our society, our western society are so unkind to the body, and that includes like capitalist urgency, culture. So like this idea that we're more machines and we should be totally productive and efficient, and that needs to be prioritized over our. Wellbeing. And so a lot of us have been taught to prioritize efficiency over everything else, and that might seep into the way we work.
[00:22:21] So we might be dealing with burnout. That's a really common one with women. Non-binary focus especially, is dealing with burnout. Dealing with vicarious trauma is a really big ones, so people close to us or people we work with have been through severe trauma and we're. Empathetic human beings who are feeling the impacts and the devastation of that.
[00:22:44] So that's a really big one as well. Weaving, that kind of urgency, efficiency, focused, capitalist like pressure. We might even be bringing that into our healing after something like trauma. So definitely a lot of the people I work with and connect with are survivors of. Gender-based violence or sexual trauma, they might be dealing with that.
[00:23:10] But there's also this added layer of maybe putting a lot of pressure on themselves to heal more quickly or heal the correct way, or be exactly like they used to be, or be like, make the most impact from a dysregulated place rather than like an inspired one. So yeah, definitely a lot of different things.
[00:23:31] And then a huge theme as well would be, body shame, body image issues, disordered eating. And again, it's like that's not coming from individuals. It's a culture of fat phobia, a culture of objectification where people are just made to feel never enough and the state of kind of fight flight that that puts us in can create all these other kind of struggles.So a lot of different things.
[00:24:02] Michelle: Yeah. When somebody comes in, we'll just use the example of sexual trauma history, also difficulties in their body, whether that be gender dysphoria or a disordered eating or whatever it is, a real discomfort and rejection of their body. Where do you even start?
[00:24:24] Marlee: Hmm, great question.I mean, something that I really love about this somatic approach is that it's very collaborative, so it's not this kind of standard expert client binary that we see. So often of person goes to the doctor for something that their body doctor knows best they do. What the doctor says, which can work in some cases.
[00:24:49] I'm certainly not opposed to like medicine. It has, it has a place.
[00:24:54] Michelle: Some people like to be told what to do, like take this pill,
[00:24:58] Marlee: right? And, and that absolutely has a place. But I think it also has to be balanced with recognition of our own body wisdom and. Recognition of how brilliant our bodies are made to process things like think of all the things happening right now as we have this conversation.
[00:25:17] Not only are we thinking of things we've learned and emotional experiences and all these things, but our heart's pumping, our blood, pumping like so much is happening. Yeah, helping people realize. How brilliant our bodies are, and I'm really asking questions and guiding them towards what they know that I might not know.
[00:25:37] Like this idea that I have all the answers as the practitioner is not necessarily true, but I think asking these kind of guiding questions that bring someone into their body. So even just being like, what do you notice in your body right now as you're talking about these things? Like what sensations are happening?
[00:25:55] And maybe someone's like, oh, I noticed my shoulders are kind of coming up to my [00:26:00] ears, or I'm tensing my legs a lot. Say, okay. What would it be like to relax that? Or is there anything that feels reassuring to communicate to that body part? Or what's the wisdom of that motion? Is it trying to keep you safe?
[00:26:15] Right. So it's really just guiding people into that relationship with their body where they're in solidarity with themselves and their. Maybe able to feel some appreciation for their body's way of trying to keep them safe and helping them process this like awful thing they might have been through.
[00:26:34] Michelle: It sounds very mindful. Starting to bring that connection between mind and body closer together to create that awareness of what's going on and then being able to realize that you have a choice on what you want to focus on
[00:26:53] Marlee:. Yeah, exactly. It's bringing people out of dissociation and into that embodied presence because our body is sending us cues and signals all the time, and it's a matter of like, are we noticing it is our.
[00:27:10] Conditioning and wanting to like fit into certain scripts for a sense of belonging, becoming louder than those cues. Like I think that's a very real one that I experienced with queerness was realizing like, wow, I don't even know what attraction feels like anymore because I was just trying to fit in for so long and my idea of attraction was totally shaped by hetero beauty standards and it took me a while to be like, oh, I can tell I'm attracted to someone because of what I'm feeling in my body. Like, oh, that's attraction. It sounds so obvious, but so many of us deal with that with different things. For example, maybe we don't really know what we want to eat. We just order based on what we think the people around us will give a thumbs up to. Right. So it's that same kind of commitment and capacity to listen to our body cues and like validate them enough to act accordingly.
[00:28:09] Michelle: Explain what dissociation means for people and then. If the response is a freeze response, what is that?
[00:28:19] Marlee: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so dissociating in terms that like a lot of us use is numbing, checking out, kind of like when you stare off into space and you don't feel totally all there. It's kind of that experience and freeze response is, Very similar thing where our body's like hyper-activated and there's a lot of wisdom in it because it's basically the body saying.
[00:28:51] There is a threat right now, or I'm perceiving a threat right now. So sometimes that threat's really there and sometimes it's not. But the body's perceiving a [00:29:00] threat and the body's kind of calculating what the best options are to keep you safe, alive, and okay. And the body says, oh, I don't think fights available to me right now.
[00:29:14] And I don't think flights available to me right now. Let's slam the brakes entirely. Draw inspiration from the animal kingdom, which I mean we are a part of too. And almost do a kind of like play dead thing. And we see animals do this. Like you can Google it, right? Like a lion chasing prey. You can see animals do this, and there's such a wisdom in it because often the predator will lose interest, walk away, and then you'll see the animal get up and it'll shake its body for a while and continue. And that shaking is because like we said, there was this hyperactivation and then the brakes were slammed on the response. So the body had all this adrenaline and all these things going, and then they just kind of got stuck there. So that's why after the response has happened, the body's saying, I've gotta move that adrenaline through my body so I don't just hold onto it. So I mean, the power of learning about those things is huge because how many of us, myself included, struggled with or still struggle with blaming ourselves, feeling a lot of shame around freeze response, judging it as weak. So I think a big part of this healing work is like what we've been saying. A big theme is recognizing the functionality, recognizing the wisdom, and that way we can be on the same page as our bodies. We can be like, wow, we, I feel compassion. I feel appreciation for my body. And healing or reclaiming body trust can feel so much more accessible when that's the page that we're on. When somebody goes through or has a trauma response because they have been triggered.
[00:31:01] Michelle: There's also the opposite of triggers, which are called glimmers. Can you speak to what glimmers are,
[00:31:14] Marlee: Yeah, triggers are cues of danger. Something that makes you say, oh, that's danger and glimmers are cues of safety. So something that you look at and you're like, huh, deep side. That thing makes me feel a little bit better.
[00:31:29] I think when working with trauma or any conversation of like healing reclamation, it's helpful to use this kind of like 1% language of being like maybe it makes you feel 1% more safe. So glimmers can be something like, what makes me feel 1% more safe or more relaxed, more at peace, more calm. So that's gonna be different for everybody.
[00:31:54] For me, a lot of them are like context cues. So like environment or something for yourself. Environment could be music, could be dimmed lighting, or. Maybe you're like, I feel more safe with the lights fully on. I wanna see what's happening. All valid. Maybe it's certain smells like definitely think of your five senses.
[00:32:12] What are different things for those soundtracks, different things like that. Clothing, lotions, certain textures.
[00:32:23] Michelle: What is like one of the key ways that you can help to regulate yourself if you're having a trauma response?
[00:32:31] Marlee: Ooh. Good question. There's so many different ways to do that, and I guess it kind of depends on.
[00:32:41] What trauma response is happening for you? Because I think often what will happen is someone will be in full-fledged flight mode and their body's being like, run, and they're like, I'm gonna try a stillness meditation. And then they're like, that just made me more anxious because their body wants them to run.
[00:33:00] So sometimes it's like, what's gonna help me move through this? Response in a loving way. Maybe you're like, I actually am gonna go on a power walk around the street and I'm gonna blast angry music while I do that walk right? But I think that one of the best things we can do for ourselves, I'll say two things.
[00:33:21] I think one of the best things we can do for ourselves, Is just get into a practice of dialoguing with our bodies. So even like you can set an alarm on your phone once a day, and when that alarm goes off, you ask yourself, what would make me feel 1% more comfortable right now? And maybe it's maybe you're sitting in an office chair and you're like, I'm gonna switch my posture.
[00:33:43] I'm gonna go get a drink of water. Or I actually realize I have to go to the bathroom, so I'm gonna do that. And all that is is you're training your. Mind and body to be in dialogue and you are practicing asking yourself questions and listening based on your body cues,] So you're building a really wonderful skill backup.
[00:34:03] And then in moments when you do feel triggered, you're gonna feel way more capable of being like, what would make me feel 1% more safe right now? I'll also say that acknowledging that you're triggered is so huge because the body is gonna scream louder and louder until that cue or that signal is heard because it wants to keep you safe.
[00:34:27] So if your should shoulders are tense up and you're ignoring it, it's gonna get more and more and more tense until you say, oh. I'm kind of triggered right now. My body's trying to tell me something. Then your body's like, ah, okay. She heard me. Like that's good. I do think like reorienting is probably one of the most helpful practices for anyone, and that can be like the classic.
[00:34:53] Name five things you see, four things you hear like that practice or even just sometimes being like, the year is 2023. My name is this, I'm currently in my home. Like literally orienting yourself. Yeah.
[00:35:09] Michelle: Yeah. And if. None of those things comes to your mind. You always know you can rely on your breath. You can always find that, cuz I think sometimes people can't think it's, it's, there's so much adrenaline pumping to get them out and yet sometimes it's.
[00:35:31] Being able to use your breath to then tell your brain that you're okay.
[00:35:40] Marlee: Um, wiggling your fingers and toes can be really helpful. Even making saliva in your mouth is shown to be really helpful because when we're stressed, our mouths get dry. So similar thing as the breath when. Your mouth, your brain's like, oh, okay, we're not so stressed right now, actually.
[00:35:59] Michelle: Oh my God. Isn't it amazing? The human body is just so cool. Marlee. What is happening for you now? Where are you in your life? How are things feeling for you? I know that you are in the midst of working on a documentary. Mm-hmm. How exciting?
[00:36:19] Marlee: Yeah, so much. I mean, a lot is happening. A lot is I always need to take my own advice more around like slowing down and doing less and not being so. Efficiency driven. But yeah, there's a documentary being made about my own story of restorative justice for sexual violence. So I'm very excited about that and I've been really grateful to be.
[00:36:46] Doing a lot of speaking around these topics and primarily going to different universities. I was just in Washington, DC last week. I was in Nashville the week before speaking to different people about restorative justice, about trauma-informed pleasure, about queer sex education. So it's been so wonderful.
[00:37:08] I have a podcast. I'm gonna try to bring that back in the summer if it's feeling, if it's feeling loving to do so. I've also just really been enjoying this life chapter with my partner, and we just got a puppy recently, so just kind of like basking and all of that as well. Mm.
[00:37:28] Michelle: That is wonderful. And if people do wanna reach out to you to either have you come and speak or to be a part of some of the groups that you work with, how do they find you?
[00:37:43] Marlee: Yeah, I mean, for anyone who's on Instagram, that's definitely my main platform for sharing updates and connecting with people. And it's just Marlee Liss is the handle, so @M A R L E E L I S S. And my website's the same. Marleeliss.com. I do have a biweekly newsletter that I'm trying to be more consistent with, but I do include somatic practices, journal prompts, different updates and things. So definitely get on that. Also, when you join the newsletter, you get access to three different free resource guides immediately, and one of them is for restorative justice, one is for queer empowerment and one is for healing after trauma.
[00:38:27] And those include like podcasts, documentaries, different books, different organizations. So that's a really great resource. And then definitely if people are looking for a speaker at their campus conference organization group brand marley lists.com is where you'll find the info and the details. And I'm always very happy to hear from listeners, so feel free to email or message.I'd be very glad to hear from you.
[00:38:58] Michelle: Great. And Marlee, if there was one thing you could say to somebody who might be listening to this podcast who may have recently, or maybe not so recently experienced a sexual trauma, would there be one thing that you would want to say that you think that person may find helpful?
[00:39:22] Marlee: I'm always so tempted with questions like this to like speak for an hour, but I'll keep it simpler because the first thing that comes to mind is to be really proud of yourself. Because you're seeking out these resources, like you just listened to a podcast episode on this topic that can be really challenging to even think about.
[00:39:45] But here you are like seeking out tools and conversations that you feel might be supportive for you and like what a brilliant and loving thing to do for yourself. So just taking those moments to really appreciate that wisdom and courage to reach for resources like this is so important..
[00:40:08] Michelle: Marlee Liss, thank you so much for coming on to get some. It was lovely meeting you.
[00:40:16] Marlee: Aw, thank you. I'm so happy that we got to have this conversation and thank you so much everyone for listening.
[00:40:26] Michelle: That was my conversation with Marlee. This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios. If you have show ideas or a question you want me to answer in an episode, email me at Michelle@getsome.ca. And don't forget to follow me on Instagram at GETSOME_Podcast. You'll get insights on sex and sexuality, dating tips, and behind the scenes between episodes.
[00:40:58] Thank you for listening.