Imagine being stuck in the “in betweens” of your sexuality. You’re not “gay enough,” but you’re not “straight enough.” Your sexuality is constantly oversimplified, or oversexualized. You’re stuck wondering… “Am I bisexual enough???” Though that may not be the reality for all bisexual men, it certainly is a struggle that a lot of people face. Our guest on today’s episode, West, is a bisexual man who learned to embrace his sexuality and accept that he is “enough” exactly as he is. In his young adulthood, West thought his bisexuality might just be youthful curiosity. But, as his life continued to progress and West continued to mature, he came to realize that his sexuality wasn’t a “phase” or “curiosity.” It was who he was. His journey to this discovery was filled with societal pressures, self-doubt, and uncertainty. But ultimately, West found acceptance, pleasure, and confidence in his sexual identity.
Imagine being stuck in the “in betweens” of your sexuality.
You’re not “gay enough,” but you’re not “straight enough.” Your sexuality is constantly oversimplified, or oversexualized. You’re stuck wondering… “Am I bisexual enough???”
Though that may not be the reality for all bisexual men, it certainly is a struggle that a lot of people face. Our guest on today’s episode, West, is a bisexual man who learned to embrace his sexuality and accept that he is “enough” exactly as he is.
In his young adulthood, West thought his bisexuality might just be youthful curiosity. But, as his life continued to progress and West continued to mature, he came to realize that his sexuality wasn’t a “phase” or “curiosity.” It was who he was. His journey to this discovery was filled with societal pressures, self-doubt, and uncertainty. But ultimately, West found acceptance, pleasure, and confidence in his sexual identity.
If you have any questions, thoughts, or stories to share after listening to this episode, I’d love to hear from you. Michelle@GETSOME.ca
Show Notes
Guest: West
Host: Certified Sex Therapist Michelle Fischler
Production: Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios
Listener Note:
Engage with Us:
[00:00:00] West: There was one person that I was talking to and she seemed very cool. We were having great conversation and then we were making a point to meet up. Then she's like, Oh, I just realized it says that you're bisexual. I don't date bisexual men, only straight men.
[00:00:32] Michelle: Imagine being told you're not. gay enough, or straight enough, or having your sexuality oversimplified or oversexualized. That's the reality for many bisexual individuals, including our guest today, West.
[00:00:50] West: Growing up in the 80s and 90s, there was quite a stigma around homosexuality. Even if I was acting on it, it was very much
[00:00:59] Michelle: The journey of coming out as bisexual is a confusing one.
[00:01:05] Questions can come up like, Can I be bisexual if I actually haven't been with somebody of the same sex?
[00:01:13] West: It wasn't until I think I was about 20 years old. I found there was like a chat through MSN and then found another young guy my age group in Toronto. I met him at A bathhouse. We got a room there and we explored that.
[00:01:30] Michelle: And many people who have had bisexual experiences when they were younger go on to have heterosexual relationships.
[00:01:37] West: I think I met her when I was like 23 and we got married.
[00:01:41] Michelle: And once they find themselves in a long-term, heterosexual relationship, they might ask themselves, should I tell my partner? What if my partner isn't supportive?
[00:01:51] What if they refuse? further exploration. What if they're not supportive of that? What do you do then?
[00:01:58] West: Now I find most of my community is closeted.
[00:02:03] Michelle: Now for the trigger warning. West bravely shares his story, reflecting on how sexual abuse impacted his relationship with his sexuality, challenging assumptions, and adding layers of difficulty to self acceptance.
[00:02:16] West: It's a different thing if you were to actually think it's your kid, like if it was your child. You're picturing yourself as an older kid in that situation.
[00:02:26] Michelle: When it comes to bisexuality, there's no one size fits all, and it's time we start acknowledging that. Here's my conversation with West.
[00:02:43] What does your bisexuality mean to you?
[00:02:48] West: Growing up in the 80s and 90s, there was quite a stigma around homosexuality and it was very much two sides. You're straight or you're gay, and there was a lot of negative information and, I guess, viewpoint on gay lifestyle. I don't think I identified as gay, but I did find at an early age, I did have attraction to it.
[00:03:14] Michelle: How old were you when you started to recognize that you had an attraction to both sexes?
[00:03:22] West: I started a sexuality at a young age, probably too young, but in my adolescence of like 12 years old, just going into puberty, and I think there was like a heightened sexuality that I act upon with. other friends and there was definitely a desire for male sexual contact.
[00:03:43] I'm not sure if female sexual contact was available at the same time. I would have been just as interested, right?
[00:03:50] Michelle: Right. It was more accessible. I guess there was like, with your friends playing games, like, I don't know if you played doctor.
[00:04:00] West: Not, not quite, but like, you know, wrestling. Cops and robbers. Yeah.
[00:04:04] Stick them up.
[00:04:08] Yeah, there was just, I think. exploration at that age and it was an earlier introduction in earlier years of sexual contact but I don't know it had anything to do with that or I would have been equally interested at that age anyways.
[00:04:27] Michelle: I was gonna ask you what you meant when you said you learned about sex, you became a sexual being.
[00:04:36] West: Well, at the age of around seven or eight, one of the first people that introduced sexuality to me was a caregiver at the age of seven, over a period of a year. And she was 21 years old from France and a live in nanny that there was sexual contact. And at that age, when you're being taught, you have to keep that a secret.
[00:04:59] The next [00:05:00] was a neighbor. He was about maybe 16, 17 years old. Now it's over the period of like eight to 10 years old. I had contact with this boy that introduced me to more sexuality. But I think at that point was the first time learning about sex. I think. Also learning that sex should be kept secret, and there was a little bit of a wrong feeling to it, right?
[00:05:24] Michelle: What gave you the idea when you were younger, you were seven, and that caregiver touched you, that it was something that you needed to keep secret?
[00:05:37] West: There was definitely talk about not sharing or between us, and I don't know the specifics in the conversation or how it was, laid out, there was definitely a feeling of like, when an older person gives you that attention, it felt really good.
[00:05:56] But you are all of a sudden being accepted or [00:06:00] shown the way and getting that attention from somebody that, you know, You like, and you really strive for that attention again.
[00:06:08] Michelle: You know, I think that other people that have had experiences like you, there is a lot of shame around just even that acknowledgement that, that touch.
[00:06:25] It felt good, even though you know that it wasn't something that should have been happening.
[00:06:31] West: It's not that I don't think it shouldn't have been happening. I was also thinking that this is happening for other people, and this is how you, you are, you have to keep that a secret, that. I didn't feel like individual at that time.
[00:06:46] I think only until I got to that puberty stage, there was like a realization and a wake up around then. I thought it was pretty normal.
[00:06:55] Michelle: Well, yeah. I mean, you're a kid, right? Why would you think any different? And the other piece, like, let's not let this one slide, which is caregiver sexual abuse can happen not just by a male caregiver, right?
[00:07:16] But by a female caregiver too. And sometimes that goes under the radar. Because I think in some ways there's a real struggle to bring up the fact that babysitter sexually abused you because there's this idea of, man, you're fucking lucky type of thing, right? Whereas like, that's not what happens when people are sexually abused by men.
[00:07:45] Right?
[00:07:46] West: It's a different thing if you were to actually think it's your kid, like if it was your child. You're picturing yourself as an older kid in that situation. You, at that age, you're just curious. It's an unknown, [00:08:00] and that sort of lays the land of how you're supposed to interpret it, right?
[00:08:04] Michelle: Do you feel stuck? not understanding what's holding you back from having a pleasurable sex life? You're not alone. That's why I created the unlearning sexual shame module inspired by the stories of countless clients who've struggled silently. This online module is going to give you a path out. Discover the roots of shame, embrace mindfulness to break free from its spiral and redefine your sexual story with our 14 videos, interactive prompts, as well as a workbook to guide you along the way.
[00:08:48] This module is perfect for integrating into your own personal therapy or as a journey of self discovery. It's a tool designed to empower you, transform your understanding, to find clarity. To feel lighter, free from the shadows of shame. Your next chapter of empowerment, confidence, and sexual freedom is waiting.
[00:09:11] Join us at GETSOME, and let's begin the journey of unlearning sexual shame together. Now, back to the episode. When
[00:09:25] you started to become sexually active consensually. Right, where it was an agreed upon understanding between you and somebody who is a peer, let's say, or a partner. How did this complicate sex for you? As you said earlier, I needed to reconcile that this isn't bad.
[00:09:56] West: It took a while. I grew up in a household.
[00:09:57] I mean, we were liberal, but my father had. He was older, grew up in the forties and fifties, and there was definitely stigma and a point of view that was not good in his opinion of that. And I think that he could tell that I was a little bit different. Sometimes it was like teasing or he was a little bit tougher.
[00:10:20] Definitely, there was a little bit of toughening, they would say, I guess. There was definitely different treatment. I grew up in a [00:10:30] household with two sisters as well, and it was very different treatment from one to another. Now, I can only contribute that to more of my split sexual interests of keeping something secret and not being necessarily whole, right?
[00:10:51] If I have interest in both, one is frowned upon, the other is accepted. With that acceptance, it was still difficult for me to be with any partners, I think, for the first time. Like even with, I think, a lot of the female partners that I started with, like I had a tendency, I needed to keep that a secret too.
[00:11:12] Michelle: How old were you at that point?
[00:11:14] West: I think I lost my virginity to a female when I was big. And, yeah, it was an experience where I think I was eager to have that contact to understand, like, I think with the bisexuality and the hormones kicking and everything at the younger age that I was really eager to have this contact with a female, to explore that, to know that I had that desire, but I also knew there was, like, another hidden underside of, also, that desire.
[00:11:47] Michelle: And did that come up for you before, earlier than 15 years old when you would masturbate or self pleasure? Like, would you fantasize about men? And if you did, how was that for you? Like, how did you feel about it?
[00:12:03] West: I like some of it because of the taboo factor. I can't say at that age, like there was that desire for a relationship with a man or any kind of contact further than strictly sexual, it was like, I'm.
[00:12:17] Thinking of the phallic appendage, and that's what I'm masturbating to, or with a woman. And I think for a lot of people of my generation, since it had to be pretty closeted, because you were one of the other, you had to either accept that you're gay and then be shunned by society, or closet yourself and move on.
[00:12:41] So I think, Now, I find most of my community is closeted. So, a lot of the people that I've had contact with, or continue to have contact with, are married or closeted individuals, or even if they've accepted they're not, Quite publicly open about it. I have individuals that are in the middle of that transition of being a lot more open
[00:13:05] Michelle: What was it like for you?
[00:13:08] When you had your first Consensual sexual experience with another guy because knowing it was taboo growing up with that message There was obviously a point where you were like, okay, I'm gonna see where this goes goes, like as an adult, what was that like for you?
[00:13:29] West: It [00:13:30] was sort of like visiting that darker spot.
[00:13:32] I think I was in a spot of confusion where even if I was acting on it, it was very much anonymous. It wasn't until I think I was about 20 years old, I found there was like a chat through MSN or something, or ICQ or whatever we were using back then, and then found another young guy, my age group, in [00:14:00] Toronto, I met him at We got a room there and we explored that.
[00:14:06] There was definitely a lot of nerves with me, and I think a lot of the built in stigma of everything society, like, pumped in me was worried that I'd have an STI and everything. Like, definitely connected with a dirty feeling of it. After we left there, we walked up Church Street together, and I felt [00:14:30] A little bit free there.
[00:14:31] I really felt like this is okay. And this is good. Like, you know, when I was like 20 and 21, I had a couple of meets with other guys. And then I found somebody that sort of was very open minded. And I remember when I first met her, I was very vanilla, very hidden about all of everything I had. I think there was other parts of me that are equally interested in fetishes and kinks.
[00:14:58] That, again, they get all thrown into that same, like, bucket and then hidden in a closet somewhere. After we split up, there was a little bit of adventure and I know she got into some BDSM and she was very open about it and talking about it and It just opened my eyes. I was like, oh, you like this stuff?
[00:15:21] Michelle: What were some of the kinky things that you were into or like what you would use the word fetishes?
[00:15:28] West: I guess I had a very high sex] drive, but a lot of it was played in a fantasy land, right? There was a lot of masturbation. There was a lot of fantasizing about things. The desire for a lot of sexual contact.
[00:15:40] For me, I thought it was all part of that hidden thing that you're not supposed to tell anybody. You're not supposed to share it, not even with your partners. So, having somebody that was very open minded, I got to explore into a lot of those things. She did explain that she had a desire to see like two guys together, a fantasy for her.
[00:16:03] Michelle: To be honest, this is a interest many hetero cis women have. Do you appreciate watching two men together sexually?
[00:16:16] West: I think a couple times I made out with a guy in front of her to like tickle that fancy.
[00:16:20] Michelle: Was that exhilarating for you?
[00:16:22] West: A little bit, but I was very self conscious around it.
[00:16:26] Michelle: Did you ever come out to your family as bisexual?
[00:16:30] West: Yeah, I came out about 10 years ago now. And first of my sisters and my mother.
[00:16:37] Michelle: And what about with friends?
[00:16:39] West: Actually, that's a little bit longer. So I had friends that I grew up with. I think I had a really hard time. Coming out to them because I think I use them to emulate, like, this is how I'm supposed to act.
[00:16:51] I did end up coming out to them and it was actually pretty well received. A lot of them were sort of voicing that they're proud of me to be able to, like, you know who you are, you know where you're, like, maybe they can tell that there was a little bit difference. They knew that I, like, already was, And do like a lot of the fetish stuff and a lot of the other things that blows their mind already.
[00:17:14] So it's like one more like area on top.
[00:17:18] Michelle: You've already conditioned them.
[00:17:19] West: Yeah.
[00:17:30] Michelle: What is it like for you dating online as a bisexual cis man? How is it? Received by the people that you reach out to or that reach out to you?
[00:17:48] West: There is definitely still, it depends on the app you're using. I've found out a lot of stigma around it. There is that idea of maybe I'm just like a fuck boy that's wanting to fuck everything and there is no potential for whatever their ideal relationship would be of monogamy or anything else.
[00:18:09] I even made a point to like be very open on my profile. Definitely a lot less connections. Once you do that, you can see that drops off quite drastically. And then the contacts that I do meet, some are reading the profile and then you either see that they're connected and you get a couple. Words in [00:18:30] and then you're dropped or sometimes they're very verbal about it and what they think about it There was one person that I was talking to and she seemed very cool Having great conversation for a while over a period of a week and we really connected and then we were making a point to meet Up, then she's like, oh, I just realized I didn't see this on your profile But it says that you're bisexual.
[00:18:54] I'm like, oh I don't date bisexual men, only straight men. And then she proceeded to tell me not to judge her about her stances that like she has a right and I'm like Yeah, good on you, but I don't know what your right is and I don't know what takes away. It's just my orientation. And the funny thing is, even some of these people identify as bisexual.
[00:19:22] Michelle: So with women, it sounds like they sometimes get hung up on this idea of like [00:19:30] you being with other men. What about the men that you date?
[00:19:38] West: So the men that I date? Usually it would be somebody that is bisexual. My bisexuality is having it all together. My favorite is bisexual sex. So actual bisexual sex is having both sexes at the same time, rather than I'm just having sex with a man now, and now I'm having just sex with a woman. I find that in the. man on man dating world. It's a little bit more transactional, like it's sexual based. Most other bi guys or people that I would be into are usually married. And I'm going to say 90 percent of bisexual men are married or in a relationship. Strictly female relationships, and it's all on the side, and it's funny that I sometimes bust people's bubbles and like talking to other women and they're like, Oh, yeah, like, you don't see a lot of bisexual men.
[00:20:34] Where are they? I was like, well, go buy a park at night and you look out in that parking lot. Those are like married men that are gone there to go get a blowjob from whoever or other gay men that are just hooking up doing. They're cruising or whatever. It's very common. I mean, you're on the path downtown.
[00:20:51] If you don't walk into a place that somebody exposes themselves to you to see entice you for a blow job or whatever, it's very, very common.
[00:21:01] Michelle: What are some recommendations when it comes to dating as a cis het bi guy? Do you have dating tips?
[00:21:08] West: I try to be just as Honest and open as possible about my conduct and about who I am and what I enjoy.
[00:21:15] And I try to be as transparent in that point because I'm going to be attracting the people that are going to be okay with that to be exactly who you are and be able to walk around and feel no shame around it. Nothing that you have to keep a secret. You're free. Be authentically yourself. Don't try to tailor yourself to people cause it goes deeper than that.
[00:21:46] Michelle: If you have a story that you want to tell on GETSOME, email me at michelle at getsome. ca. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at getsome underscore podcast. You'll get insights [00:22:00] on sex and sexuality Dating tips and behind the scenes content between episodes. Our first online learning module called unlearning sexual shame is out now.
[00:22:12] It's designed to help you to begin understanding and unpacking the root cause of sexual shame. Go on our website at www.getsome.ca to learn more. This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios. Thanks for listening. See you later.