Ready for an Unforgettable Journey of Strength and Resilience? We’re kicking off season 3 with a conversation with Ally Hensley, a woman who was born with a rare condition called Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) Syndrome, resulting in the absence of a vagina and reproductive organs. Our conversation follows her relationship with her body before and after diagnosis, and talks about her personal healing journey to unlearning the feelings of shame she came to feel surrounding sex and sexuality. Today, Ally is an author, speaker, writer, and advocate for women’s reproductive health. Where to Find Ally: Instagram: @Ally_Hensley Website: https://allyhensley.com/ Podcast: Stigma Shakers https://linktr.ee/allyhensley
Ready for an Unforgettable Journey of Strength and Resilience?
We’re kicking off season 3 with a conversation with Ally Hensley, a woman who was born with a rare condition called Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) Syndrome, resulting in the absence of a vagina and reproductive organs. Our conversation follows her relationship with her body before and after diagnosis, and talks about her personal healing journey to unlearning the feelings of shame she came to feel surrounding sex and sexuality.
Today, Ally is an author, speaker, writer, and advocate for women’s reproductive health.
Show Notes
[00:00:09] Introduction by Michelle:
Michelle opens the episode by posing a thought-provoking scenario about adolescence, expectations, and the shock of discovering one's body is different, setting the stage for Ally's story.
[00:00:30] Ally's Diagnosis:
Ally Hensley recounts her personal experience with MRKH, discovered during her teenage years when she did not get her period, leading to a diagnosis that would forever change her perspective on womanhood and belonging.
[00:01:37] Emotional Impact and Isolation:
Ally discusses the emotional turmoil of growing up with MRKH, the societal pressures of womanhood, and the unique challenges of navigating adolescence with a condition few understand.
[00:02:08] Humor and Societal Norms:
Despite the challenges, Ally recalls moments of humor and the lengths she went to fit into societal norms, highlighting the complexity of identity and the desire to belong.
[00:02:38] Disclosure and Shame:
Ally talks about the internal battle with disclosing her condition, confronting shame, and finding the courage to speak her truth.
[00:03:37] Acceptance and Community:
The conversation shifts to Ally's path towards acceptance, the power of community, advocacy, and the importance of unlearning shame associated with MRKH.
[00:05:00] Sexual Education and Discovery:
Ally discusses the shortcomings of sex education, her personal exploration of sexuality, and the journey of creating her own vagina, reflecting on societal expectations and the pursuit of "typical".
[00:09:14] Medical Journey:
Ally shares her experience navigating the medical world at 16, the options presented for treatment, and the impact of her condition on family dynamics and personal growth.
[00:12:46] Stigma and Silence:
The discussion delves into the societal stigma surrounding MRKH, the importance of open dialogue, and the ongoing struggle against shame and secrecy.
[00:17:49] Womanhood and Identity:
Ally reflects on the concepts of womanhood, motherhood, and the societal pressures that define female identity, emphasizing the need for a broader, more inclusive understanding.
[00:24:28] Reconnecting with the Body:
Ally discusses the complex relationship between pain, pleasure, and body disconnect, sharing her journey towards healing and reconnecting with her body and sexuality.
[00:32:06] Overcoming Shame:
The episode concludes with Ally offering ideas for others struggling with shame, emphasizing the importance of community, self-acceptance, and challenging societal norms.
Closing Remarks by Michelle:
Michelle wraps up the episode, highlighting the significance of Ally's story in challenging silence and shame around sex and identity, and directs listeners to Ally's podcast, "Stigma Shakers," for more insights and inspiration.
Where to Find Ally:
Instagram: @Ally_Hensley
Website: https://allyhensley.com/
Podcast: Stigma Shakers
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/allyhensley
[00:00:00] Theme Song
[00:00:09] Michelle: What would you do if you were in your teens, outwardly developing fairly typically compared to your peers, except for one thing, you don't get your period. So, you go to the doctor, who sends you for some tests, and you get a shocking diagnosis.
[00:00:30] You find out that your reproductive organs didn't fully develop, including your vaginal canal. This happened to my guest today, Ally Hensley.
[00:00:40] Ally: The unique and rare condition MRKH is named after the four founding male physicians. It affects one in 5, 000 females, so we do carry the XX chromosome. And it is characterized by the underdevelopment of the uterus, cervix, and vaginal canal.
[00:01:01] Michelle: It's usually discovered during adolescence when a girl does not start her period.
[00:01:07] Ally: You do have ovaries, so externally your body is forming as a typical female would. It's not picked up at birth. Some people might attempt to have sex and it's picked up in that way, but more so it's just the period never arrives, which is absolutely mortifying as a 16 year old.
[00:01:26] Discovering MRKH often brings a mix of confusion and isolation. Ally shares the emotional impact of realizing her body was different.
[00:01:37] Ally: When I was 16, doing my high school exams, there was that fear of, that you're going to stand up and you're going to have this bloody patch on your skirt. And so my mum gave me sanitary products, and these were archaic, weird ones.
[00:01:51] I wore it every day in preparation for the period, and of course the period never came.
[00:01:56] Michelle: In the face of such profound challenges, Ali recalls moments of humor, and the lengths to which we go to fit into societal norms, even when faced with uncertainty.
[00:02:08] Ally: I would carry around tampons and sanitary towels just so if someone asked, I could give it to them. Like, I was under the biggest, biggest spy, alias, character that I could ever be, just so I felt like a woman.
[00:02:23] Michelle: Discussing diagnosis as personal as MRKH isn't easy. Ally talks about the internal conflict of disclosure, battling with shame. And eventually, finding a voice to speak her truth.
[00:02:38] Ally: I did disconnect from myself because I probably didn't want to feel the impact of this diagnosis.It was just too big to comprehend. We all have been taught that we want to fit into a drop down box, and if we're outside of that box, if the box doesn't exist, And you don't exist. You are wrong. You are dirty. You are a freak show. We want to belong. And if we don't feel like we belong, then. We're fucked basically, and the biggest secret out there is that most of us don't feel like we belong. And it does come down to shame, that I haven't done it good enough. I haven't done life good enough, women good enough, sex good enough.
[00:03:22] Michelle: Ally's journey of acceptance and empowerment is a testament to resilience. She reflects on the transformative power of [00:03:30] community, advocacy, and the process of unlearning shame associated with MRKH.
[00:03:37] Ally: Self destruction was the easy path until it just wasn't. When you look at your body as bricks and mortar, as flesh and tissue. You don't learn about the emotional connection that you're going to have with people and the ability to have sex. And I remember Googling, I need a support group. I'm ready to kind of face MRKH and the role that it's had in my life.
[00:03:58] Is it friend or foe? It did trigger me to start a movement and a charity and a community. And I think it's just about sharing experiences with the right people. So my journey back from shame is ongoing. But what I've discovered is that. Stigma is like shame's cousin. They're really great mates. They love, um, geeing each other on. And when shame gets in your bloodstream, it's literally intoxicating in all the awful ways.[00:04:31]
Michelle: When I heard Ali's story and how she overcame shame, I thought it would be the perfect Place to kick off season three where this season we're embarking on a profound journey to dismantle the barriers of silence and shame surrounding sex. Here's my conversation with Ally Hensley.
[00:05:00] Ally: Sex education doesn't teach us anything other than ABC one, two, three, or it certainly didn't in my time at school. I did try to masturbate and I remember distinctly, and I actually live in my childhood home, it's actually my home now, so the bathroom next to me is where I first tried to masturbate. And two rooms away from me is where I first made my vagina, but we can touch on that, of course.
[00:05:25] Michelle: Where you first made your vagina!
[00:05:26] Ally:I did, I made my vagina from scratch and damn, it's become my biggest career break ever. Oh my god, I love it. Yeah, so I did the masturbation, didn't work.
[00:05:35] Michelle: Can I ask you one question? Yeah. When you say I did the masturbation and it didn't work, now I don't know if where it comes to the development of your vulva, was there a clitoris there?
[00:05:46] Ally: Yes, yes, absolutely. And my advocate peers are going to absolutely grill me for missing this important, very pertinent fact. So because the estrin was doing its thing externally, I have boobs, I've got big boobs. I've got, I'm curvy. The vulva develops as typical or as different as any other vulva out there.
[00:06:12] And because we're formed outside in, it happens and occurs in the first six to eight weeks of gestation. So when we're being made in our mother's wombs, all those vital Elements to our body, our organs are being made. And it's almost like driving down a genetic road through the entire nine months as the embryo.And at six to eight weeks, that car, that lorry, whatever you want to call it.
[00:06:36] Michelle: A limousine?.
[00:06:38] Ally: Limousine. Plane crashed, like something whacked that pothole at six to eight weeks. And that was the gene mutation of when our reproductive organs are forming. And I won't go into like the research of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it has been identified and I was fortunate enough to be part of a research study that identified this exact gene. What that gives us is knowledge, but not a cure, of course. Externally, the vaginal opening, which, in my case, was a dimple, was no longer than a thumbnail in length, and so that can vary, in fact, you know, there's some people with MRKH that will have sex before they know they have MRKH.
[00:07:31] Michelle: So, I could see how that might happen, because Um, we are given ideas somewhere, we get these messages in society that, you know, intercourse penetration may be uncomfortable, may hurt. And so if you have an underdeveloped vaginal canal and it's uncomfortable when something is inserted, you might then just have that conversation in your head like, well, I guess it's supposed to be uncomfortable.
[00:08:17] Ally: We've all taught about the hymen, the great wall of iron between, uh, vulva and beyond. Yeah. And because I had attempted masturbation, that was probably my first inkling of kind of going. Hmm, okay. It's more that end of the scale. I had also attempted to have sex and the same reaction, I guess, in a sense of penetration happened. It just didn't happen. You know, give it a good go. [00:08:51]
Michelle: And like that also happens where you give it a good go and It doesn't go.
[00:08:57] It doesn't go. And you think, okay. Even if you have a vaginal canal.
[00:09:00] Ally: This is it. You just, you don't think that there's anything, and this is the whole trauma around certain things, is you don't think this worst case scenario. You don't even have the ability to think, oh, well, it could be. It's just, there's only this way.
[00:09:14] Michelle: How old were you when you went down the route of the medical journey?
[00:09:21] Ally: 16. Which I think's crazy in a way, because. Whilst teenagehood, I was a child and I had a laparoscopy after the ultrasound to further investigate and this is way back when the doctor was drawing diagrams with a pencil. There wasn't anything high tech about this diagnosis. The curtain was drawn around my bed. I was delivered the diagnosis of MRKH and quickly referred on to a hospital in London, which were incredible. And I'm so grateful for the NHS system because most don't have that privilege.
[00:10:00] Michelle: When you were given the diagnosis, What did they say to you around treatment options and did you have a choice as to what you wanted to do with moving forward on this medical journey?
[00:10:30] Ally: Yeah, absolutely. So I was sent to or referred on to an amazing flagship hospital in London who are the sort I don't want to say the best because I know that there are a lot of emerging incredible centers for MRKH but at the time they were considered the go to and I spoke to two incredibly well versed specialists in MRKH and my mum and my dad were with me and let's be honest who really wants to talk about vaginas with one's parents at 16 at the best of times let alone the fact that it does not exist and I remember actually before I was diagnosed just like as a bit of a memory jump before I was diagnosed like wondering when that period was going to come and my dad took them on holiday and he was like said to my mom they were separated I've got some tampons just in case and she's like way to go and I was like that's so cute.
[00:11:15] Michelle: It is so cute. You did and you know it's like all I keep thinking is what you were Getting from your parents, preparing you for your period, having everything that you needed. Oh yeah. I would imagine, like, many people don't even get a conversation from their parents. And could you imagine somebody who really just goes through this on their own, doesn't tell anybody that they didn't get their period.
[00:11:42] Ally: I think it really is important to talk about the dialogue, right, that we have around taboo and stigma and things like that, and the various cultural differences that allows these conversations to happen. And I am a very privileged person. I'm a very privileged person within the UK that has access to the NHS system, and there are a lot of people that don't have that same access or that same cultural acceptance. And even a few weeks ago, talking to somebody who has MRKH, the only person who knows about it, and she's in her late 30s, is her mum. And that's not uncommon. I understand the need for privacy. I understand that MRKH is an intimate, sensitive topic. So yes, it does have its place when it comes to what we share, what we don't share, how we share it. But almost sometimes when we don't share it, we're validating its shame. We're saying to people you stay in the shadows, you live in secrecy, you never ever disclose this diagnosis.
[00:12:46] And if you are going to make your vagina, you do so quietly. And that's what happens. And I think when I was given my options of dilation, it was vaginal or surgical. That doesn't [00:13:00] always happen country to country. You know, America have been quite surgically driven, whereas Australia was very more dilatory driven.Dilators are various shapes of dilators, tubes, plastic. You insert these tubes into the dimple of your vaginal canal and the vagina is super elastic y, it's designed to be that way. And you just push 20 minutes, morning and night, and it can range in time between how committed you are, how psychologically able you are, and how supported you are.
[00:13:32] Because the outcome of having a vagina is going to mix from person to person. Now, with surgery There are various procedures, one of which is quite a popular one called the McIndoe McIndow, which takes skin grafts and it's kind of like surgically made and molded. There is something called, it's quite barbaric, luckily not an option that I've heard for many years, it's called the Viacchetti or Viacchetti procedure, which is where they place an olive sized ball into the belly button of the abdomen, and it's then tied to the top of the vaginal dimple, and there's a traction device that over time, yeah.
[00:14:17] And I'm just kind of like turning the cogs in front of you in a motion over time. There's been procedures in the past, like if you think of like a bicycle without a seat, where women are placed on something very similar to stretch it that way. I mean, I haven't heard this, but this has happened and I would not be surprised if this continues to happen in certain countries where there is a lack of Knowledge, expertise, specialist care, and yeah, just not the available anything.
[00:14:50] So, I made my vagina when I was 16, and a therapist once said to me, if there was a time in your life that I could revisit, it would be those three days in hospital where you were learning how to make it. Because what I've learned subsequently is that whilst the vaginal lengthening process was brutal. It felt like I was, and I don't want, you know, as I will preface this with a trigger warning, and I don't mean to insult any survivors of sexual abuse, but it felt for me like I was sexually abusing myself because I quickly equated pain with pleasure, progress, With pain, love and pain, sex and pain, intimacy and pain.
[00:15:46] And so I didn't know what it felt like to live in my body. And that's when I probably abandoned my body, actually. Not so much what the MRKH does to us, because it's awful. But it is a moment in time, it is a diagnosis. It's what you do with that diagnosis. When you decided,
[00:16:06] Michelle: well, I'm going to go make my vagina. What do you think it was about you that, that felt so important?
[00:16:15] Ally: I honestly don't know if I thought that it was important. I think I was swept up in the medical part of it. And there wasn't much around, and I might be sharing my age right now, but in, you know, the late 90s, there wasn't the research about the psychological impact of MRKH. There wasn't the understanding of what vaginal lengthening can do as a teenage girl, or person, I should say. And reclaiming power, I haven't got a womb. But I can make a vagina. Yeah. And interestingly, I think at that age, we're not necessarily in baby making brain set. We're very much in the pathway to womanhood, which will typically involve partnership and sex and all those sort of things.
[00:17:06] So, whilst I didn't have a uterus, my body clock wasn't even there yet. It clicks in, what, I don't know, late 20s, whatever it might be. It wasn't, can I have a baby? It was like Okay, so what the fuck type of woman am I? When I haven't got a womb to be a mother, and I haven't got a vagina to be a partner, and these are the two body parts that will qualify us, and I know people say that we're [00:17:30] so much more than that, but we have got thousands of years of ancestral belief systems going on.
[00:17:37] They are the parts. that society will qualify us. It's our job to unlearn that belief system and rebuild it. That's a hell of unlearning.
[00:17:49] Michelle: For you, what was the turning point where you decided [00:18:00] you wanted to start the process of unlearning the shame that was connected to what you believed a vagina?To be and to represent.
[00:18:09] Ally: I will be brutally honest on paper process started when I was 30, I was living in Bondi in Australia and my 15 year relationship broke up and I had a pretty big rap sheet for shit relationships, very abused, very mistreated, which is very sad. I think, and I would say that my MRKH allowed that to happen because I didn't deserve or thought that I didn't deserve any more than that.
[00:18:59] And I was punishing myself, and I'm not quite sure why, and maybe in a year's time after more therapy I'll get there, but I did decide, and it was actually my mum who had a stroke, and she's very fit and well today, but I saw her desire to heal and recover and I look up, like most people might look up to their parents.
[00:19:24] And also my relationship broke down. It was all these really serendipitous kind of things were happening and I was living in Bondi, 10, 000 miles away from home. And I remember Googling, I need a support group. I'm ready to kind of face MRKH and the role that it's had in my life. Is it friend or foe? It did trigger me to start a movement and a charity and a community and I say that hopefully humbly because it was incredible.
[00:19:52] Michelle: I think everybody hits a point in their life when they're ready to face whatever it [00:20:00] is that they're facing when it comes to their sexuality and their relationship with sex. And for some people it starts earlier and other people it starts in their 70s, right?
[00:20:11] Ally: I had an awful lot of sex when I had my vagina made and ready to go. And promiscuity is not uncommon for people with MRKH in the sense of validation. It works. I'm desirable. I'm a woman.
[00:20:26] Michelle: Would you have a conversation with a perspective lover saying, Hey, FYI, this is the situation. Do you have any questions? Do you have lube?
[00:20:39] Ally: So no, I was really fucked up. I would lie to people about my name. I would give false characters. Of who I was, you know, that I could have children, people would ask me about contraception. I memorized contraception like the back of my hand. I would carry around tampons and sanitary towels just so if someone asked, I could give it to them. Like, I was under the biggest, biggest, spy, alias, character that I could ever be, just so I felt like a woman.
[00:21:13] Michelle: I also wonder, though, There was parts of that experience that were very adaptive for you in that it helped for you to be able to give yourself the experience that you needed to feel more typical. Right? To kind of feel like you were going through whatever you thought it was that you were supposed to go through with somebody who has like a typical vagina and reproductive system, right?
[00:21:46] Like, I think oftentimes people do go back and they reflect and like, I was so fucked up and I did all these fucked up things. But if we go back to that point in time, it obviously made sense to us.
[00:21:59] Ally: I think that's the forgiveness part, isn't it? When we look back on ourselves and kind of forgive ourselves behaviors that we would say, how could you possibly do that? I think we do the best at the time we have. And yes, that was probably me trying to reenact and feel like a woman and, or my version of societies. And I remember doing pregnancy tests and no, I didn't mention it to any men. Not in a very intimate, sensitive, respectful manner. I was in a relationship for 10 years, I told him via text at the beginning of our relationship and we never spoke of it again.
[00:22:34] And it was then I was like, I have to start facing up to my diagnosis. And in terms of shame, I don't necessarily think that I live with the shame of the diagnosis anymore. I've actually got quite a good relationship with MRKH. I always talk about it being the enemy in a very close quarters flat with no windows and bars, or can you kind of come to some commonality of what can you do for me and what can I do for you?
[00:23:03] And if we're going to live together, let's live together nicely. And that's probably where I'm at with my diagnosis, but shame as we know, It feels like sexual failure. It feels like unlovability. It's a scary reality of Shit, I'm not a mother. I'm not gonna be a mother. What will people think of me if, what, if I don't achieve anything then I've just like [00:23:30] scrapped a whole life. And I think the way that sex is approached and desirability and intimacy is approached and this is like this fucking, like, play bedlam with my sex life. Bedlam. And I don't think any more about, and I don't want to sound like a dick when I say if you Google me you'll find, but if you Google my name you'll find a lot of things and most of those things will be headlines with the word made my vagina. Yeah. That doesn't bother me. I'm really proud of
[00:24:00] What I've done with what was otherwise a horrific experience, a very traumatic experience. For me, I think the work is on what MRKH did. Um, with that, if that makes sense, what it gave me in sense of interpersonal relationship dynamics, what it did with boundaries, what it did with what do I view as sex and being empowered in that situation. And that's what I'm really delving into now.
[00:24:28] Michelle: You talked about the relationship that you had between your vagina and pleasure. It was always connected to pain, and you talked about how you really disconnected [00:25:00] from your body during that time. And I think this is so common amongst people in general who experience pain during penetration. There is a protective ability where you disconnect your mind from your body, because of course It's uncomfortable.
[00:25:23] You want to separate yourself. What is the journey like with working towards connecting back your mind to your body and your mind to your vulva, to your vagina? What is the journey that you went on to try to create a different kind of relationship with sex?
[00:25:55] Ally: I think when I talk about pain, I mean literal pain, sexual pain, like having sex. And I also think the emotional pain. In the beginning of my sexual journey, I would seek out not nice people, people who would happily use me, people who would physically abuse me. Emotionally abused me, not just in the bedroom, but outside too because it was an extension of that experience. I did disconnect from myself because I probably didn't want to feel the impact of this diagnosis.
[00:26:38] It was just too big to comprehend. So promiscuity wasn't just a lot of one night stands. It was a lot of dangerous. One night stands. It was a lot of one night stands in short amounts of time. I thought maybe I should go and be a prostitute because I've got such a wonderful ability to not respect my body.
[00:27:01] And it's there for purpose rather than anything. I guess it's a piece of, you know, it's weird because when you look at your body as bricks and mortar, as flesh and tissue, You don't learn about the emotional connection that you're going to have with people and the ability to have sex. So it becomes very us versus it.
[00:27:21] You know, it's almost like if someone stuck a finger in my ear, it's no different whether they put their penis in the vagina that I created. It was a means to an [00:27:30] end. It was transactional. Blech. Yeah. And it was only when I started to look at years of abuse. I mean, I was just battering my body. I have to bring up my therapist next week.
[00:27:44] I think the journey back to me was really having the microscope over MRKH and choosing to really look into it and looking into it with a group of people that I chose selectively who had lived through trauma of their own kind who were open and honest that [00:28:00] didn't make it shameful to have big feelings and a big bad past and difference.
[00:28:06] You know, I always say the only thing in this world that is normal is difference. So I was craving it and it just came to me because I was so tired of disliking myself. It was almost like self destruction was the easy path until it just wasn't. It was all those sort of different mechanisms that you use to numb the experience, which is, you know, alcohol, sex with the [00:28:30] lights off, drugs, people who weren't there that cared about your body being a subject more than an object.
[00:28:37] And I think also the first thing that I needed to do was dig deep about where is the origin of the shame. You know, is it the fact that I could see my hand, you know, when I was 16 years old for nine months, pushing into my body? Like, this is where the pain comes. If you want to have a vagina, your knuckles need to turn white.
[00:28:58] You need to do this alone. [00:29:00] There's going to be K Y jelly everywhere. Your family are going to look really awkwardly at you when you walk through the living room door. And look, let's face it, like sex and sexuality and everything taboo in this society just remains to be as crippled as ever. And we're asking people to be quiet.
[00:29:16] Censorship on social media is asking women to be quiet. When we're talking about body parts and sexual health and well being, it's flagged and community guidelines will remove you. We are constantly validating it, [00:29:30] so it's no wonder if you're lucky enough. to have the resources and the finance and the means to get some help to dig deep.
[00:29:38] But I'm still learning my body and I think, MRKH or no MRKH, I think it's also just about having these conversations that truly matter. Like, I think it's just about sharing experiences with the right people. So my journey back from shame is ongoing, but what I've discovered is that stigma. It's like [00:30:00] shame's cousin.
[00:30:01] They're really great mates. They love, um, geeing each other on. And when shame gets in your bloodstream, it's literally intoxicating in all the awful ways.
[00:30:12] Michelle:You believe that the messages are actually facts. And I think it's such a shock when you start going back to the origins and you start to question your own.
[00:30:28] interpretation. You realize that those were interpretations, right? Living in a very patriarchal society. And then when you realize that it wasn't actually based in fact, and that you were getting messages about what you need to be in order to be accepted in this culture in this community. So, of course, you're going to do whatever you need, right?
[00:30:56] Get yourself a vagina so that people in your community are going to It makes complete sense as a young person when you're trying to make meaning, you're just trying to feel typical.
[00:31:13] Ally: We all have been taught that we want to fit into a drop down box, and if we're outside of that box, if the box doesn't exist, then you don't exist.
[00:31:22] You are wrong, you are dirty, you are a freak show, whatever, like, I'm not saying this, I'm saying these words, it's what I told myself. And I think, you know, as you said about meaning, humans are meaning makers. We need to know meaning. We need to kind of get to the root of anything. And I think just at the core of it is this real true sense of belonging.
[00:31:44] We want to belong. And if we don't feel like we belong, then we're fucked basically. Yeah. And the biggest secret out there is that most of us don't feel like we belong. And most of us do have a [00:32:00] backstory that we're not particularly going to be okay with sharing. And I think it's up to platforms like yours, Michelle.
[00:32:06] Mine, storytellers that are out there, sex educators to keep talking and tackling taboo and not just the matters of sex and not just intimacy. It does come down to shame that I haven't done it good enough. I haven't done life good enough, women good enough, sex good enough.
[00:32:28] Michelle: If you were to give three of the most important points that you've learned on your journey to help other people who are going through Their own experience of shame around their body, around their sexuality. Three things that you think have been so helpful for you in your journey that other people may want to consider while going through theirs.
[00:33:02] Ally: Okay, so the first thing I will say is that there is zero definition of normal. Normal does not exist. Normal might be a majority, but even within that majority, you're going to find another sector of people and another sector of people, and you keep going on, and you'll find out that no one's the same.
[00:33:26] And that's actually quite beautiful, I think. So try to remove normal from your dictionary. The second thing is that womanhood
[00:33:41] isn't a paragraph of text in a school book, and it's not one class in biology. The term womanhood is completely diverse and very subjective. You know, the world needs mothers, yes? It might need to believe that a woman is to have a specific type of sex, which is BS. You know, the world needs educators and healers and nurturers and educators and leaders, and it needs aunties.
[00:34:12] And there are so many different types of women that this world needs. So if you don't fit into that very traditional box, You will find your own and that's okay. And I think lastly, what's the one thing that I wish I knew when I was 16? It's going to sound so cliche, but you're really worthy. You're really good enough.
[00:34:40] There isn't a value when it comes to that type of stuff. There's no rick to scale, if you like, or no metric system of what makes you a good enough human. And I think people with MRKH, I love the people I've met. They are the most fierce, badass, intelligent, empathetic, brave, humble people I have ever met.
[00:35:06] And 90 percent of the people on this globe that I adore have this condition. When considering your worth in a relationship and whether that person is going to be okay with accepting you, I would flip that. And say, are they worthy of what I can bring to this relationship?
[00:35:25] Michelle: How important do you think that building a community has been for you in your journey?
[00:35:32] Ally: Well, I think community is everything. Storytelling has happened for a gazillion of years, whether it be in tribal settings, whether it be in women's circle, whether it be in eating disorder therapy groups, addictive circles, whatever you say, the formula is the same. Put a circle of chairs in a big space.
[00:35:54] We invited people to come and share their story. And it was that simple. And it is that simple. If you want to try to heal a community or find a community that you care about, a topic of cause, a group of people that need help, that is what is going to do it. If you give people a voice. And it literally is finding people that say, I get it.
[00:36:21] I remember a doctor said to me in a conference, really big conference, she was praising us. Oh my god, how did you do this? Because we founded something called Global MRKH eight years ago as well. And I said, I really won't overcomplicate it. You literally need a room in your hospital, preferably without a pregnant woman on the wall.
[00:36:38] Put some chairs in. put a few pastries, coffee and tea, get someone who's relatively confident to talk about their diagnosis and it will spread like wildfire when it comes to truth telling. If you
[00:36:51] Michelle: are, let's say, interested in somebody romantically, sexually, and you tell them that you have [00:37:00] MRKH, how would you want them to respond to you?
[00:37:06] Ally: I think how they respond is how you phrase. I always say to people, find your script first. What my script is isn't going to be your script. You know, mine might be way more detailed than yours. Yours might be half a diagnosis. You know, do they need to know the whole diagnosis? Do they need to know it now?
[00:37:25] What are we hoping that they will say? We're still trying to wrap our heads around MRKH [00:37:30] now as people with MRKH. So I always say, please don't cast too much judgment on someone who's only heard it five minutes ago, when we still can't nail it. 20 years on. I think the best thing to do is give that person an opportunity to ask questions and give that person the opportunity to say nothing, but ideally with no judgment and compassion and understanding and just maybe thank you for trusting me with your story.
[00:38:02] Michelle: Thank you for trusting me with your story.
[00:38:06] Ally: You're lovely.
[00:38:09] Michelle: Ali, where can people find you? And what's the name of your book? And just give it all to us.
[00:38:17] Ally: So you can find me, it's really annoying on Instagram. Someone nabbed the one I wanted, of course. So on Instagram, it's Ali, but you have to do underscore, underscore. Hensley. My website is https://allyhensley.com/ My podcast is Stigma Shakers at Stigma Shakers on Instagram. You can find it on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, all the places you listen to your podcasts. And with my book, I'm currently trying to find the perfect home, publisher home for this book, but I see it really ramping up this year.
[00:38:48] And yeah, Michelle, like, We haven't spoken before, you know, we've communicated on Instagram. And so this has been a really beautiful conversation and the way that you have absorbed and understood MRK, I know this is your wheelhouse, but just in the way that you've really kind of looked at. Very kind of nuanced part of it.
[00:39:10] I'm really grateful for you and I think a lot of people with MRKH will be grateful for your sensitivity and Approach, so thank you.
[00:39:18] Michelle: You're welcome. I'm sorry. I you just almost well you did kind of make me cry I feel no in a good way. I feel So privileged to have had this conversation with you and I feel incredibly privileged about the work that I get to do. To listen to your story and where you have come and how you've used MRKH. as a way to like show your uniqueness, to show your value, and to challenge the stigma and shame. I think it's beautiful and thank you so much for being [00:40:00] here. Told you I was gonna cry. We did not bring tissues.
[00:40:07] Ally: I got Victoria Beckham mascara and I cannot cry. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you so much.
[00:40:20] Michelle: If you find Ally as fascinating as I do, you need to check out her podcast called Stigma Shakers. And also hold tight, because Ally has a book that's about to come out. So stay tuned to hear about when that's going to be released. This show is produced by Katie Jensen at Vocal Fry Studios. If you have show ideas or a question you want me to answer in an episode, email me at Michelle@Getsome.ca and don't forget to follow me on Instagram @GETSOME_podcast. You'll get insights on sex and sexuality, dating tips, and behind the scenes between episodes. Thank you for listening.